[BMJ]

Yolie wrote:



>>OK. I'm not sure exactly what your situation is. In my experience
>>ABD implies you've left school after being admitted to the PhD
>>program (whatever that entails) without finishing the dissertation
>>and getting the degree. So have you left one school ABD and are
>>now in another school or what?
>>
>>In the programs I'm familiar with guiding the student in developing
>>an acceptable research proposal for the dissertation (which was
>>part of the process of being admitted to the PhD program) was
>>also the job of the PhD advisor. I'm unfamiliar with the term "Idea
>>Paper". Does it differ from a research proposal?
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Russell
>>
>
>
>
> So have you left one school ABD and are now in another school or what?
> NO - same school. I think your definition is a bit off. Anyone know of ADB
> being defined in this manner.
>
>
>

ABD can mean either having left without finishing a thesis or is at a
stage where all that is left to complete the degree is the thesis itself.

Archived from group: alt>education>research

[Yolie]

"Threeducks" wrote in message @comcast.com...
> Yolie wrote:
>> Does anyone know of any reputable organizations or persons?
> Try talking to your advisor.

Thanks but my school doesn't give you an advisor until your topic and
proposal/Idea Paper has been approved.

[BMJ]

Yolie wrote:
> "Straydog" wrote in message
> @panix2.panix.com...
>
>>Yolie: Since you did not discuss it, is there some reason you _can't_ get
>>help from your advisor? Are there no examples of Idea Papers on file
>>somewhere. Do they just throw you into the water with no lessons in how to
>>swim? Can't you talk to other students who are finishing their
>>dissertation and ask them?
>>
>
>
> Straydog,
> There are examples. I have completed two, which I felt were well done. I was
> met with the response that their weakness was that they were uninteresting
> and I may want to approach another professor with them. To say they were
> uninteresting says to me that they were fine otherwise and that professor
> just had no interest in them. My thoughts....
>

"Interest" as in not worth investigating or "interest" as in no money in it?

[Russell.Martin]

BMJ wrote:
> Yolie wrote:
>
>
>
> >>OK. I'm not sure exactly what your situation is. In my experience
> >>ABD implies you've left school after being admitted to the PhD
> >>program (whatever that entails) without finishing the dissertation
> >>and getting the degree. So have you left one school ABD and are
> >>now in another school or what?
> >>
> >>In the programs I'm familiar with guiding the student in developing
> >>an acceptable research proposal for the dissertation (which was
> >>part of the process of being admitted to the PhD program) was
> >>also the job of the PhD advisor. I'm unfamiliar with the term "Idea
> >>Paper". Does it differ from a research proposal?
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>Russell
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > So have you left one school ABD and are now in another school or what?
> > NO - same school. I think your definition is a bit off. Anyone know of ADB
> > being defined in this manner.
> >
> >
> >
>
> ABD can mean either having left without finishing a thesis or is at a
> stage where all that is left to complete the degree is the thesis itself.

Ok, strictly speaking that's true, I have just never heard of
someone who is in school referring to themself as ABD. They've
always said something like "I'm finishing my PhD" or "I'm writing
my dissertation" or some variation. Job ads will sometimes list
PhD or ABD as requirements, but if one is taking a job that sort
of implies leaving school, although that doesn't necessarily
foreclose finishing the dissertation and degree.

Cheers,
Russell

[BMJ]

Russell.Martin@wdn.com wrote:



>>>So have you left one school ABD and are now in another school or what?
>>>NO - same school. I think your definition is a bit off. Anyone know of ADB
>>>being defined in this manner.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>ABD can mean either having left without finishing a thesis or is at a
>>stage where all that is left to complete the degree is the thesis itself.
>
>
> Ok, strictly speaking that's true, I have just never heard of
> someone who is in school referring to themself as ABD. They've
> always said something like "I'm finishing my PhD" or "I'm writing
> my dissertation" or some variation. Job ads will sometimes list
> PhD or ABD as requirements, but if one is taking a job that sort
> of implies leaving school, although that doesn't necessarily
> foreclose finishing the dissertation and degree.

I've never heard anyone refer to themselves as ABD either.

One could be ABD for a number of reasons, such as having completed the
bulk of the research and taking a job while writing the manuscript. But
being a permanent ABD can give certain impressions about one's abilities
and/or stamina. I remember when I finished my degree. I didn't want to
do anything even remotely associated with using my intellect for several
months as I was mentally exhausted after submitting my thesis.

[Threeducks]

Yolie wrote:
> "Threeducks" wrote in message
> @comcast.com...
>
>>Yolie wrote:
>>
>>>Does anyone know of any reputable organizations or persons?
>>
>>Try talking to your advisor.
>
>
> Thanks but my school doesn't give you an advisor until your topic and
> proposal/Idea Paper has been approved.
>
>
Call mre old fashioned, but how does one get "ABD" without an advisor?
I must have a misunderstanding about what your definition of what "ABD" is.

[Russell.Martin]

Yolie wrote:
> wrote in message
> @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Yolie wrote:
> >> wrote in message
> >> @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> > Yolie wrote:
> >> >> Does anyone know of any reputable organizations or persons?
> >> >
> >> > I thought that is what your advisor is for. He/she isn't doing
> >> > the job?
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > Russell
> >> >
> >>
> >> I am ABD and at a school where I must develop an Idea Paper for approval
> >> first. What is normally the process, from some of you have gone this
> >> route
> >> before.
> >
> > OK. I'm not sure exactly what your situation is. In my experience
> > ABD implies you've left school after being admitted to the PhD
> > program (whatever that entails) without finishing the dissertation
> > and getting the degree. So have you left one school ABD and are
> > now in another school or what?
> >
> > In the programs I'm familiar with guiding the student in developing
> > an acceptable research proposal for the dissertation (which was
> > part of the process of being admitted to the PhD program) was
> > also the job of the PhD advisor. I'm unfamiliar with the term "Idea
> > Paper". Does it differ from a research proposal?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Russell
> >
>
>
> So have you left one school ABD and are now in another school or what?
> NO - same school. I think your definition is a bit off. Anyone know of ADB
> being defined in this manner.

OK, that clears up some of the mystery. Out of curiosity
is your school in the U.S.?

At my school we had an advisor before taking qualifiers
and they started us on research problems that they were
interested in, had funding for, thought would match our
skills, and hopefully be of some interest. Sometimes
these were just warmup exercises, sometimes they developed
into PhD projects. Back to your question, I've never heard of
a dissertation coach, although some people may claim to
be. Obviously the person would need to be familiar with
you field. I don't think someone can be a dissertation
coach in the same way that some people hang out their
shingles as "career coaches" or "life coaches". If you
can find someone outside of your school or at least
department who knows enough about the field and is willing
to spend the time helping you, that would be your course
of action if no one in your department can/will guide you.
Perhaps Sigma Xi or the professional society of your field
has some mentoring program that may help. As someone else
suggested, ask other grad students. I think it probable
that you are not the only student in history to have this
problem. Good luck.

Cheers,
Russell

[sillybanter]

In sci.research.careers Russell.Martin@wdn.com wrote:
> Yolie wrote:
> > wrote in message
> > @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > Yolie wrote:
> > >> Does anyone know of any reputable organizations or persons?
> > >
> > > I thought that is what your advisor is for. He/she isn't doing
> > > the job?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Russell
> > >
> >
> > I am ABD and at a school where I must develop an Idea Paper for approval
> > first. What is normally the process, from some of you have gone this route
> > before.
>
> OK. I'm not sure exactly what your situation is. In my experience
> ABD implies you've left school after being admitted to the PhD
> program (whatever that entails) without finishing the dissertation
> and getting the degree. So have you left one school ABD and are
> now in another school or what?

Typical use of "ABD" that I'm familiar with is primarily for people
still in school. Both when I was a student (20 years ago) and now, it
means someone who has completed all their course and
comprehensive/qualifying exam requirements (so as far as requirements
for finishing, they've done "all but dissertation"). I suppose it
could be used to refer to someone who left school at this level as
well, but I've almost always heard it used to refer to current
students who were working on their dissertation.

> In the programs I'm familiar with guiding the student in developing
> an acceptable research proposal for the dissertation (which was
> part of the process of being admitted to the PhD program) was
> also the job of the PhD advisor. I'm unfamiliar with the term "Idea
> Paper". Does it differ from a research proposal?

I'm guessing his "Idea Paper" is what we'd call a "dissertation
proposal". At most universities that I'm familiar with this would be
done in conjunction with the advisor, although it sounds from another
posting that this isn't the way it's done at his school (must be a
non-US school?).

Unfortunately, if the original poster is preparing things that the
faculty are saying are "uninteresting" then some possibilities to
consider are

a) The proposals simply aren't interesting from a research
standpoint, and wouldn't contribute much to the field. While
there are certainly cases of faculty not grasping the importance
of a student's work, quite frankly in most cases the student
overestimates the impact of their pet project (of course, faculty
can do that too!). But really, assuming it's a decent research
university with active faculty, they generally *do* have a depth
of experience in research that should be listened to.

b) The proposal is in a subfield that the faculty there don't have
expertise in. This is a very real possibility, but what are you
doing at that university then? The whole point of a PhD program
is to build up research in a particular area, and if no one at
the university works in that area you've made a seriously bad
choice of school. You can either transfer schools (difficult to
do efficient at the ABD stage) or switch areas. I know of
exactly one case of a student successfully doing a dissertation
in an area that wasn't really supported by the school. But this
student had the benefit of 2 other world-class universities
within a 30 minute drive, and one had a faculty member who worked
in his area of interest -- and he arranged for that faculty to be
a "co-advisor" from the other university, and he (the other
faculty member) was respected enough at the student's university
that it worked out. However, even in those somewhat ideal
conditions, it was a constant uphill battle for this student to
get finished, and I think it took him 8-9 years to finish his PhD.
You have to have a *very* serious drive in your particular area
for this to work out.

--

Steve Stringer
sillybanter@gmail.com

[Yolie]

"Threeducks" wrote in message @comcast.com...
> Yolie wrote:
>> "Threeducks" wrote in message
>> @comcast.com...
>>
>>>Yolie wrote:
>>>
>>>>Does anyone know of any reputable organizations or persons?
>>>
>>>Try talking to your advisor.
>>
>>
>> Thanks but my school doesn't give you an advisor until your topic and
>> proposal/Idea Paper has been approved.
> Call mre old fashioned, but how does one get "ABD" without an advisor? I
> must have a misunderstanding about what your definition of what "ABD" is.

In reference to all of the responses, which I do appreciate, ABD means
exactly what most have stated. You have completed All But Dissertation.

I have chosen to forget the Dissertation Coach. He/she cannot tell me
anything I don't already know. Now - is there anyone with a PhD in the area
of technology, CIS, CS, etc that visits this group?

[drocillo]

Yolie wrote:
> Now - is there anyone with a PhD in the area
> of technology, CIS, CS, etc that visits this group?

I think every third scientist on this group changed his career into the
programmer's career. Now -- what do you want from us ?

[Yolie]

"drocillo" wrote in message @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Yolie wrote:
>> Now - is there anyone with a PhD in the area
>> of technology, CIS, CS, etc that visits this group?
>
> I think every third scientist on this group changed his career into the
> programmer's career. Now -- what do you want from us ?
>

Do all of you guys know each other? I need someone that I can communicate
with often as I complete my dissertation. My field in Information Systems.

[Old Pif]

Yolie wrote:
> "drocillo" wrote in message
> @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Yolie wrote:
> >> Now - is there anyone with a PhD in the area
> >> of technology, CIS, CS, etc that visits this group?
> >
> > I think every third scientist on this group changed his career into the
> > programmer's career. Now -- what do you want from us ?
> >
>
> Do all of you guys know each other? I need someone that I can communicate
> with often as I complete my dissertation. My field in Information Systems.
>

I am not sure that any of the regulars here ever met personally but we
are here for a long time and so, yes, in that respect we know each
other pretty well.

You can write me at OldPif@gmail.com. Whether I would be able to help
depends on the problem(s) you have.

Old Pif

[Russell.Martin]

Old Pif wrote:
> Yolie wrote:
> > "drocillo" wrote in message
> > @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > Yolie wrote:
> > >> Now - is there anyone with a PhD in the area
> > >> of technology, CIS, CS, etc that visits this group?
> > >
> > > I think every third scientist on this group changed his career into the
> > > programmer's career. Now -- what do you want from us ?
> > >
> >
> > Do all of you guys know each other? I need someone that I can communicate
> > with often as I complete my dissertation. My field in Information Systems.
> >
>
> I am not sure that any of the regulars here ever met personally

For the record, Art and I had lunch together once.

Cheers,
Russell

> but we
> are here for a long time and so, yes, in that respect we know each
> other pretty well.
>
> You can write me at OldPif@gmail.com. Whether I would be able to help
> depends on the problem(s) you have.
>
> Old Pif

[drocillo]

Russell.Martin@wdn.com wrote:
> Old Pif wrote:
> > Yolie wrote:
> > > "drocillo" wrote in message
> > > @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > >
> > > > Yolie wrote:
> > > >> Now - is there anyone with a PhD in the area
> > > >> of technology, CIS, CS, etc that visits this group?
> > > >
> > > > I think every third scientist on this group changed his career into the
> > > > programmer's career. Now -- what do you want from us ?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Do all of you guys know each other? I need someone that I can communicate
> > > with often as I complete my dissertation. My field in Information Systems.
> > >
> >
> > I am not sure that any of the regulars here ever met personally
>
> For the record, Art and I had lunch together once.

Was the food any good ?

\/

[Russell.Martin]

drocillo wrote:
> Russell.Martin@wdn.com wrote:
> > Old Pif wrote:
> > > Yolie wrote:
> > > > "drocillo" wrote in message
> > > > @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > Yolie wrote:
> > > > >> Now - is there anyone with a PhD in the area
> > > > >> of technology, CIS, CS, etc that visits this group?
> > > > >
> > > > > I think every third scientist on this group changed his career into the
> > > > > programmer's career. Now -- what do you want from us ?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Do all of you guys know each other? I need someone that I can communicate
> > > > with often as I complete my dissertation. My field in Information Systems.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I am not sure that any of the regulars here ever met personally
> >
> > For the record, Art and I had lunch together once.
>
> Was the food any good ?
>
> \/

Mine was fine.

Cheers,
Russell