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Between you and I, we're losing me.

 
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Sylvia Else



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:52 pm    Post subject: Between you and I, we're losing me. Reply with quote

Languages are not static, and what seems wrong at one point in time will
be the approved correct form at another. Still, I'm puzzled about what
is happening to English pronouns, of which a particular example is "me".

Just briefly, to set the scene, in English we have a subject pronoun
"I", and a corresponding object pronoun "me". The subject pronoun is
used when the reference is to the subject of a verb, such as "I chased
the dog." The object form is used when the reference is to object, such
as "The dog chased me." The object form is also used for indirect
objects, often introduced by preposition, such as "The dog brought the
bone back to me," where "to" is the proposition.

Confusion seems to have set in where there are two indirect objects,
particularly where one is a name, such as "the dog sat between Peter and
me", which many people now express, incorrectly, as "the dog sat between
Peter and I".

Now, as I said, languages change, and the distinction between subject
and object pronouns is redundant. All the same, I do not understand how
this is occurring.

It has been suggested that it's the fault of American grammarians, who
in teaching that "It is I" is the correct form of "It's me" (a
questionable proposition at best), have confused a generation of
students who now say "I" where they should say "me" in phrases like
"between you and I."

But even if that's true, how is it managing to spread across the English
speaking world, as it clearly is? The implication is that there is a
point where people who are getting it right hear someone else get it
wrong, assume that that person knows better, and then adopt the
incorrect form. They continue to do this despite hearing people around
them still using the correct form.

I have recently heard examples where people are substituting "I" for
"me" even where there is no preposition involved, as in "The dog chased
Peter and I".

At the same time, I heard Delta Goodrem, who is no doubt a linguistic
role model for some young women, using the word "me" at the start of a
sentence instead of the correct "I" - something like "Me and Fred went
to the shops".

Are we seeing not so much a removal of a redundant pronoun as a swapping
of pronoun roles, such that some time in the future the sentences "The
dog chased I" and "Me chased the dog" would be correct?

Maybe it's just as well we don't live forever. Despite understanding the
volatile nature of language, I find these seemingly pointless changes to
be increasingly irritating.

Sylvia.

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Sylvia Else



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:52 am    Post subject: Re: Misused pronouns: Between you and I, we're losing me. Reply with quote

This thread is about the misuse of the pronouns "I" and "me".

Sylvia.
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Andy



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Between you and I, we're losing me. Reply with quote

"Sylvia Else" wrote in message $0$7152$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Languages are not static, and what seems wrong at one point in time will
> be the approved correct form at another. Still, I'm puzzled about what is
> happening to English pronouns, of which a particular example is "me".
>
> Just briefly, to set the scene, in English we have a subject pronoun "I",
> and a corresponding object pronoun "me". The subject pronoun is used when
> the reference is to the subject of a verb, such as "I chased the dog." The
> object form is used when the reference is to object, such as "The dog
> chased me." The object form is also used for indirect objects, often
> introduced by preposition, such as "The dog brought the bone back to me,"
> where "to" is the proposition.
>
> Confusion seems to have set in where there are two indirect objects,
> particularly where one is a name, such as "the dog sat between Peter and
> me", which many people now express, incorrectly, as "the dog sat between
> Peter and I".
>
> Now, as I said, languages change, and the distinction between subject and
> object pronouns is redundant. All the same, I do not understand how this
> is occurring.
>
> It has been suggested that it's the fault of American grammarians, who in
> teaching that "It is I" is the correct form of "It's me" (a questionable
> proposition at best), have confused a generation of students who now say
> "I" where they should say "me" in phrases like "between you and I."
>
> But even if that's true, how is it managing to spread across the English
> speaking world, as it clearly is? The implication is that there is a point
> where people who are getting it right hear someone else get it wrong,
> assume that that person knows better, and then adopt the incorrect form.
> They continue to do this despite hearing people around them still using
> the correct form.
>
> I have recently heard examples where people are substituting "I" for "me"
> even where there is no preposition involved, as in "The dog chased Peter
> and I".
>
> At the same time, I heard Delta Goodrem, who is no doubt a linguistic role
> model for some young women, using the word "me" at the start of a sentence
> instead of the correct "I" - something like "Me and Fred went to the
> shops".
>
> Are we seeing not so much a removal of a redundant pronoun as a swapping
> of pronoun roles, such that some time in the future the sentences "The dog
> chased I" and "Me chased the dog" would be correct?
>
> Maybe it's just as well we don't live forever. Despite understanding the
> volatile nature of language, I find these seemingly pointless changes to
> be increasingly irritating.
>
> Sylvia.


Grammar is no longer taught formally in schools. A bit of incidental grammar
here and there. Emphasis is on being creative. Spelling is even worse.
But then it's all creative, I suppose!

Andy

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