Christ came from Arabia?

\"CHRIST\" · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

"NO I DIDN"T"......Peace on you brother .......................Every one's peacing on my
brother............And my real name is BRIAN
"Abu-Alwafa" wrote in message$f7.116831@localhost...
> In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
>
> Christ came from Arabia?
> By Khaled Ahmed
>
> Book Review: Who was Jesus? A conspiracy in Jerusalem
>
> Kamal Salibi is a Lebanese-Christian scholar who first became known for his
> book The Bible Came from Arabia in 1985. His expertise lies in knowing the
> towns and villages of Saudi Arabia and Yemen closely enough to equate them
> with the place-names featuring in the Bible. He repeats his claim once again
> in the present book based on St Paul's Epistle to the Galatians in which
> Paul writes that, after converting miraculously from a Christian-baiting
> Jew, the first place he visited was Arabia and not Jerusalem. Salibi claims
> that he went to Hijaz in Saudi Arabia to consult the single Aramaic injil
> (Gospel) mentioned in the Quran and noted by Hadith as being in the
> possession of Varaqah bin Nawfal in the times of Muhammad PBUH 500 years
> later.
>
> This happened 500 years before the advent of Islam. It is known that the
> language spoken by Christ was Aramaic which was the idiom then current in
> Arabia. The Bible says that Jesus or Jeshu came from Galilee (al-Jalil in
> Arabic) which is located by the Jews in "Israel". According to Salibi,
> al-Jalil is a town in present-day Taif in Hijaz, and this is where Jeshu was
> born as a Jew. From here he went to Jerusalem to announce his prophethood
> among the Jewish nation awaiting their Messiah. Salibi examines the verses
> of the Quran to conclude that the prophet Issa mentioned in the Quran was
> not Jeshu of the Bible but another prophet who proclaimed himself 400 years
> earlier than Jeshu. The Quran described Issa as a virgin-born prophet who
> liberalised the strict faith of the Torah and fell foul of the Jews. It was
> Issa who also predicted the coming of Ahmad, the other name of Muhammad
> PBUH.
>
> The book is a fascinating examination of the four Gospels of the New
> Testament. It relies on modern Christian scholarship to point out the
> contradictions contained in them. It analyses the contents of the Acts of
> the Apostles and Epistles of Paul to conclude that the New Testament
> 'joined' the two narratives of Jeshu and Issa for reasons
> of politics among the disciples of Christ. It is well known that the Gospels
> of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not compatible in their detail and that
> the first three are called Synoptic because of their minimal concordance
> while the Gospel of John is treated separately because of its radical
> departure. The Gospels mix Jeshu, who has a father and brothers, with Issa,
> who has no father and no brothers. John goes so far as to not even mention
> the name of Maryam as Jeshu's mother while others admit his carpenter father
> while bowing to the Quranic version of the virgin birth.
>
> The Issa of Varaqah bin Nawfal was the one known to Muhammad PBUH, and the
> injil mentioned in the Quran was a single document. The other source
> confirming the presence of this injil was the Negus of Ethiopia who
> recognised Muhammad as the new Prophet on the basis of its text. The
> reference in the Quran to the changing of injil by Christians is actually a
> reference to the fusion of Jeshu and Issa in the four Gospels of the New
> Testament. This has resulted in the Muslim faith in the one injil (no longer
> extant) mentioned in the Quran and narrated to Muhammad PBUH by Varaqah bin
> Nawfal, a close relative of his wife Khadija. This injil was written in
> Aramaic, the
> mother tongue of Christ, and was relied upon by Varaqah in lieu of the four
> originally Greek injils then followed in Hijaz among orthodox Christians.
> Salibi thinks that unless one separates the two persons known as Jeshu and
> Issa the problem of the double narrative in the Gospels cannot be resolved.
>
> Christ is also called Nazarene connecting him to Nazereth in present-day
> "Israel". Salibi thinks that Issa and his followers were called Nazerenes
> because of the town in Hijaz they came from, al-Nasira, which still exists
> in Saudi Arabia. Jeshu is claimed to be from the line of David and therefore
> entitled to be the king-prophet of "Israel". Internal evidence also suggests
> that he was from the tribe of Levi. In the post-crucifixion politics that
> developed between Paul on the one hand and James the brother of Jeshu and
> the disciples on the other, royal descent became an important factor. Since
> Paul was spreading the message
> among the Gentiles of the West, his thinking was different from James and
> the apostles of Jerusalem. One difference that became marked in later times
> was Paul's refusal to accept circumcision for his Western converts insisted
> upon by James. Paul states in Epistle to the Galatians that the apostles in
> Jerusalem composed their differences with him only after he offered them the
> much-needed funds he had collected in the West.
>
> According to Salibi, Paul's journey to Arabia acquainted him not only with
> the Aramaic gospel which talked of Issa but also other scriptures that had
> elevated Issa to the level of God. The Quran points to this cult when it
> says that some followers of Issa had started worshipping him as god. The
> Quran also develops the doctrines of wahdat and shirk against this
> apotheosis. It condemns the
> designation of Issa as Son of God. Paul is supposed to have used
> Arabian-Aramaic scriptures to invent his composite personality of
> Christ. The cult of Issa the God developed in Arabia as a fertility rite.
> Al-Issa the god was
> developed from the ancient divinity of Al-Ais which means 'semen'. His
> temple was in the south at Tubalah in the province of Asir and was called
> Kaaba al-Yamaniya (the southern Kaaba). The divinity was called Dhu Khalasah
> (redeemer) and
> was a sculpture of white stone representing a phallus topped with a crown.
> Prophet Muhammad PBUH is said to have sent his warriors to destroy the
> 'second Kaaba' after coming to power.
> But the cult was resurrected later and the 'second Kaaba' in Asir was
> finally destroyed by the Wahabi warriors in 1815.
>
> It was not only Paul who could read Aramaic. John, Luke and Matthew too
> could read the Aramaic scriptures. They too are supposed to have benefited
> from these scriptures in the fusion of the three identities they produced in
> the person of Christ in their Gospels. Matthew's concept of Jesus as a
> repository of Kingdom, Power and the Glory is supposed to have been derived
> from Dhu Khalasah's attributes of marut (dominion) hayl (power) and misbah
> (glory). His adoption of the Trinity is also taken by Salibi to be a
> borrowing from the cult of Al-Issa or Dhu Khalasah.
>
> But while these borrowings were against the Quran, there were many elements
> the Apostles took from the Aramaic injil that the Quran supports. John for
> instance, whose Gospel is considered 'gnostic' and set apart from the other
> three, took the Quranic word used to describe Issa, kalimah (speech), and
> translated it as Greek logos (word),
> thus cleverly linking up with the Old Testament symbol of pre-creation. This
> means that the Quran had used some of the words contained in the Aramaic
> injil it considered authentic. Salibi has not pointed this out but one can
> explain the famous
> phrase used by Luke:24: 'Indeed it is easier for a camel to pass through the
> eye of the needle than someone who is rich to enter the Kingdom of God'. The
> Quran, which came 500 years later, used the same camel simile to describe
> the fate of the arrogant (the rich can be arrogant?) in Aaraf:40:
> 'Nor will they enter the Garden until the camel can pass through the eye of
> the needle'. Some scholars have marvelled at the Quranic borrowing from
> Luke, but Salibi's research offers a good explanation. It is quite possible
> that Luke's borrowing of the phrase comes from the same early source as the
> Quran's, the Quran of course being a continuation of the authentic injil
> (Gospel) in which Prophet Issa had predicted the coming of Prophet Muhammad
> PBUH.
>
> As explained by Salibi, the Jesus or Jeshu of the Gospels is a composite
> figure which contains the attributes of the Jeshu of Arabia, fused with the
> Issa of the Aramaic injil, and Al-Issa the god. All the three arose in
> Arabia, which is sought to be
> proved on the basis of Salibi's research into the place-names of Saudi
> Arabia. His linking of the Torah geography to that of present-day Saudi
> Arabia has upset the Christian narrative as well as the post-Quranic Muslim
> narrative. His earlier book
> explained even the Old Testament references to misr (Egypt) as references to
> locations in Arabia which the Christian and Muslim orthodoxy will find
> difficult to accept, but his work will always continue to arouse interest.
>
> Much of his present book is based on earlier investigation of the Gospels,
> but much of it is also based on plausible constructs. As a Christian he
> believes in the historical Christ but his effort at
> reconciliation of Biblical contradictions has made the present work
> possible.
>
> Allah Almighty knows best.
>
>

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Archived from group: aus>education

Abu-Alwafa · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 23

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Christ came from Arabia?
By Khaled Ahmed

Book Review: Who was Jesus? A conspiracy in Jerusalem

Kamal Salibi is a Lebanese-Christian scholar who first became known for his
book The Bible Came from Arabia in 1985. His expertise lies in knowing the
towns and villages of Saudi Arabia and Yemen closely enough to equate them
with the place-names featuring in the Bible. He repeats his claim once again
in the present book based on St Paul's Epistle to the Galatians in which
Paul writes that, after converting miraculously from a Christian-baiting
Jew, the first place he visited was Arabia and not Jerusalem. Salibi claims
that he went to Hijaz in Saudi Arabia to consult the single Aramaic injil
(Gospel) mentioned in the Quran and noted by Hadith as being in the
possession of Varaqah bin Nawfal in the times of Muhammad PBUH 500 years
later.

This happened 500 years before the advent of Islam. It is known that the
language spoken by Christ was Aramaic which was the idiom then current in
Arabia. The Bible says that Jesus or Jeshu came from Galilee (al-Jalil in
Arabic) which is located by the Jews in "Israel". According to Salibi,
al-Jalil is a town in present-day Taif in Hijaz, and this is where Jeshu was
born as a Jew. From here he went to Jerusalem to announce his prophethood
among the Jewish nation awaiting their Messiah. Salibi examines the verses
of the Quran to conclude that the prophet Issa mentioned in the Quran was
not Jeshu of the Bible but another prophet who proclaimed himself 400 years
earlier than Jeshu. The Quran described Issa as a virgin-born prophet who
liberalised the strict faith of the Torah and fell foul of the Jews. It was
Issa who also predicted the coming of Ahmad, the other name of Muhammad
PBUH.

The book is a fascinating examination of the four Gospels of the New
Testament. It relies on modern Christian scholarship to point out the
contradictions contained in them. It analyses the contents of the Acts of
the Apostles and Epistles of Paul to conclude that the New Testament
'joined' the two narratives of Jeshu and Issa for reasons
of politics among the disciples of Christ. It is well known that the Gospels
of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not compatible in their detail and that
the first three are called Synoptic because of their minimal concordance
while the Gospel of John is treated separately because of its radical
departure. The Gospels mix Jeshu, who has a father and brothers, with Issa,
who has no father and no brothers. John goes so far as to not even mention
the name of Maryam as Jeshu's mother while others admit his carpenter father
while bowing to the Quranic version of the virgin birth.

The Issa of Varaqah bin Nawfal was the one known to Muhammad PBUH, and the
injil mentioned in the Quran was a single document. The other source
confirming the presence of this injil was the Negus of Ethiopia who
recognised Muhammad as the new Prophet on the basis of its text. The
reference in the Quran to the changing of injil by Christians is actually a
reference to the fusion of Jeshu and Issa in the four Gospels of the New
Testament. This has resulted in the Muslim faith in the one injil (no longer
extant) mentioned in the Quran and narrated to Muhammad PBUH by Varaqah bin
Nawfal, a close relative of his wife Khadija. This injil was written in
Aramaic, the
mother tongue of Christ, and was relied upon by Varaqah in lieu of the four
originally Greek injils then followed in Hijaz among orthodox Christians.
Salibi thinks that unless one separates the two persons known as Jeshu and
Issa the problem of the double narrative in the Gospels cannot be resolved.

Christ is also called Nazarene connecting him to Nazereth in present-day
"Israel". Salibi thinks that Issa and his followers were called Nazerenes
because of the town in Hijaz they came from, al-Nasira, which still exists
in Saudi Arabia. Jeshu is claimed to be from the line of David and therefore
entitled to be the king-prophet of "Israel". Internal evidence also suggests
that he was from the tribe of Levi. In the post-crucifixion politics that
developed between Paul on the one hand and James the brother of Jeshu and
the disciples on the other, royal descent became an important factor. Since
Paul was spreading the message
among the Gentiles of the West, his thinking was different from James and
the apostles of Jerusalem. One difference that became marked in later times
was Paul's refusal to accept circumcision for his Western converts insisted
upon by James. Paul states in Epistle to the Galatians that the apostles in
Jerusalem composed their differences with him only after he offered them the
much-needed funds he had collected in the West.

According to Salibi, Paul's journey to Arabia acquainted him not only with
the Aramaic gospel which talked of Issa but also other scriptures that had
elevated Issa to the level of God. The Quran points to this cult when it
says that some followers of Issa had started worshipping him as god. The
Quran also develops the doctrines of wahdat and shirk against this
apotheosis. It condemns the
designation of Issa as Son of God. Paul is supposed to have used
Arabian-Aramaic scriptures to invent his composite personality of
Christ. The cult of Issa the God developed in Arabia as a fertility rite.
Al-Issa the god was
developed from the ancient divinity of Al-Ais which means 'semen'. His
temple was in the south at Tubalah in the province of Asir and was called
Kaaba al-Yamaniya (the southern Kaaba). The divinity was called Dhu Khalasah
(redeemer) and
was a sculpture of white stone representing a phallus topped with a crown.
Prophet Muhammad PBUH is said to have sent his warriors to destroy the
'second Kaaba' after coming to power.
But the cult was resurrected later and the 'second Kaaba' in Asir was
finally destroyed by the Wahabi warriors in 1815.

It was not only Paul who could read Aramaic. John, Luke and Matthew too
could read the Aramaic scriptures. They too are supposed to have benefited
from these scriptures in the fusion of the three identities they produced in
the person of Christ in their Gospels. Matthew's concept of Jesus as a
repository of Kingdom, Power and the Glory is supposed to have been derived
from Dhu Khalasah's attributes of marut (dominion) hayl (power) and misbah
(glory). His adoption of the Trinity is also taken by Salibi to be a
borrowing from the cult of Al-Issa or Dhu Khalasah.

But while these borrowings were against the Quran, there were many elements
the Apostles took from the Aramaic injil that the Quran supports. John for
instance, whose Gospel is considered 'gnostic' and set apart from the other
three, took the Quranic word used to describe Issa, kalimah (speech), and
translated it as Greek logos (word),
thus cleverly linking up with the Old Testament symbol of pre-creation. This
means that the Quran had used some of the words contained in the Aramaic
injil it considered authentic. Salibi has not pointed this out but one can
explain the famous
phrase used by Luke:24: 'Indeed it is easier for a camel to pass through the
eye of the needle than someone who is rich to enter the Kingdom of God'. The
Quran, which came 500 years later, used the same camel simile to describe
the fate of the arrogant (the rich can be arrogant?) in Aaraf:40:
'Nor will they enter the Garden until the camel can pass through the eye of
the needle'. Some scholars have marvelled at the Quranic borrowing from
Luke, but Salibi's research offers a good explanation. It is quite possible
that Luke's borrowing of the phrase comes from the same early source as the
Quran's, the Quran of course being a continuation of the authentic injil
(Gospel) in which Prophet Issa had predicted the coming of Prophet Muhammad
PBUH.

As explained by Salibi, the Jesus or Jeshu of the Gospels is a composite
figure which contains the attributes of the Jeshu of Arabia, fused with the
Issa of the Aramaic injil, and Al-Issa the god. All the three arose in
Arabia, which is sought to be
proved on the basis of Salibi's research into the place-names of Saudi
Arabia. His linking of the Torah geography to that of present-day Saudi
Arabia has upset the Christian narrative as well as the post-Quranic Muslim
narrative. His earlier book
explained even the Old Testament references to misr (Egypt) as references to
locations in Arabia which the Christian and Muslim orthodoxy will find
difficult to accept, but his work will always continue to arouse interest.

Much of his present book is based on earlier investigation of the Gospels,
but much of it is also based on plausible constructs. As a Christian he
believes in the historical Christ but his effort at
reconciliation of Biblical contradictions has made the present work
possible.

Allah Almighty knows best.

Peter · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 2

In article , RT
wrote:

> So you are going to tell me YOUR religion has never been responsible for
> killing people?

No war has not been religious based. If we wiped it from the face of
the planet we probably wouldn't have wars.

Rod Speed · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

Peter wrote in message%spamfromnewsgroups@chatomatic.net...
> RT wrote

>> So you are going to tell me YOUR religion
>> has never been responsible for killing people?

> No war has not been religious based.

Drivel. The Vietnam War wasnt. Neither was Malaya. Or WW1

The yankee war of independance wasnt either.

etc etc etc.

> If we wiped it from the face of the planet
> we probably wouldn't have wars.

Utterly mindless silly stuff. There'd still be wars about other stuff.

Clockmeister · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

"Peter" wrote in message%spamfromnewsgroups@chatomatic.net...
> In article , RT
> wrote:
>
> > So you are going to tell me YOUR religion has never been responsible for
> > killing people?
>
> No war has not been religious based.

Not true although religion often plays a part.

If we wiped it from the face of
> the planet we probably wouldn't have wars.

"it" as in "human-it-y" you mean.

Regards,

Clockmeister.

veritas · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

One thing for certain - he wasn't a blonde-haired blue-eyed 6 footer.

veritas

John Leister wrote:
> Was JC a camel jockey?

Inver · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

"Rod Speed" wrote in message$ann6q$1@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> Peter wrote in message
> %spamfromnewsgroups@chatomatic.net...
> > RT wrote
>
> >> So you are going to tell me YOUR religion
> >> has never been responsible for killing people?
>
> > No war has not been religious based.
>
> Drivel. The Vietnam War wasnt. Neither was Malaya. Or WW1
>
> The yankee war of independance wasnt either.
>
> etc etc etc.

Have there have been more people killed in the name of religion than from
any other cause ?
I think so.
Have there been more young children abused and interferred with by the
churches than by any other group?
I think so.
Are the churches amongst the most wealthy groups in the world?
I think so.
Are churches getting emptier and emptier?
I think so.

> > If we wiped it from the face of the planet
> > we probably wouldn't have wars.
>
> Utterly mindless silly stuff. There'd still be wars about other stuff.
>
>

Rod Speed · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

Inver wrote in message$0$6526$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Peter wrote
>>> RT wrote

>>>> So you are going to tell me YOUR religion
>>>> has never been responsible for killing people?

>>> No war has not been religious based.

>> Drivel. The Vietnam War wasnt. Neither was Malaya. Or WW1

>> The yankee war of independance wasnt either.

>> etc etc etc.

> Have there have been more people killed in the
> name of religion than from any other cause ?

Thats distinctly arguable. Specially when you include that
huge numbers who died of starvation etc as a result the
russian collectivisation and the chinese terminal insanitys etc.

None of those had anything to do with religion at all and while
there were certainly some religious differences between some
of the combatants in WW2 particularly, its stretching a very
long bow indeed to claim that religion had much to do with
the very high civilian casualty rates with carpet bombing etc.

> I think so.

Like I say, thats a very arguable proposition.

> Have there been more young children abused and
> interferred with by the churches than by any other group?

Again, thats a rather arguable proposition too, particularly with
what qualifys a 'abused'. Certainly true of filling their heads with
a complete pack of lies, but thats not what you are talking about.

> I think so.

Like I say, thats a very arguable proposition.

> Are the churches amongst the most wealthy groups in the world?

Thats hardly surprising given that they are the biggest groups in the world.

> I think so.

> Are churches getting emptier and emptier?

> I think so.

Quite a few are, some aint.

And what matters on that 'religion' question is how many
fools claim to believe in some form of god etc. That has
dropped a bit in recent times, but its still very high and its
far from clear how much of the drop is just more prepared
to say publicly that they dont buy that line of bullshit.

And you can also claim that thats nothing particularly new
with vastly higher numbers proclaiming that there aint no
god at particular times, particularly with communists etc.
Many of those now claim to believe in some stupid myth now.

>>> If we wiped it from the face of the planet
>>> we probably wouldn't have wars.

>> Utterly mindless silly stuff. There'd still be wars about other stuff.

John Leister · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 2

Was JC a camel jockey?

Rod Speed · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

John Leister wrote in
message @senet.com.au...

> Was JC a camel jockey?

Nope, donkey jockey, stupid.

John 12: 14, 15