ID CARD COMPULSORY for Gov Family Benefits, Childcare Rebate

Wayne · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 2

Learn the 'Goose-step!'... wrote:
> "Reaper" wrote in message
> @corp.supernews.com...
>
>> wrote in message
>>@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>>opportunistic
>>>
>>>fraudsters
>>>
>>>It depends on what you consider an "opportunistic fraudster". Yes
>>>its
>>>easy to catch them.
>>
>>I'm refering to the lower order more unsophistocated dork who does
>>it because the opportunity presented itself.
>>
>>
>>>But what about political dissidents? What happens
>>>if our country is taken over by a tyrannt? It will make it easy for
>>>her
>>>to locate and remove the resistance - this is the bas eof were
>>>opposition to the card is coming from. Its not so much the state of
>>>reality in the present, such as the benefits given by its
>>>proponents of
>>>the present. Its the future that worries us. The whole national ID
>>>card
>>>was covered in Orwellian society.
>>
>>You surely can't be serious can you?
>
>
>
> Tell that to Germany & Europes Jews.
> Germany was very different before the Nutzis started gaining power &
> manipulating peoples fears to get their way...

That is true - they were less public with their xenophobic tendencies.

Archived from group: aus>education

Terry Collins · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

Kwyjibo. wrote:

>>2) it can & will be abused by criminals - ask any decent teen
>>hacker/cracker...
>
>
> ROFL. Yeah. The average criminal has a scanning electron microscope handy.
> Next.

lol, you really are a daft moron.

The same machine the government uses to produce these cards will be
available on the black market. Probably already is available.

>
>>4) We cannot be sure that future governments will be as honest,
>>trustworthy & benevolent as 'Honest John' Howards Liberals...
>
> In what way can any information about an individual be abused, if that
> person has done nothing wrong and has nothing to hide?

with an attitude like that, please make sure you are in front of the queue.

> Next.
>
>
>>5) They refuse to release the costings which they *claim* make this an
>>economic winner... LOL LOL LOL LOL !!!!!!!
>
>
> So you have a single possible negative- maybe - if the thing will cost more
> than they suspect.........
>
> Pathetic.
>
>

fuxx-off.liberals · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 4

"Wayne" wrote in message $0$16928$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Learn the 'Goose-step!'... wrote:
>> "Reaper" wrote in message
>> @corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>> wrote in message
>>>@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>>>opportunistic
>>>>
>>>>fraudsters
>>>>
>>>>It depends on what you consider an "opportunistic fraudster". Yes
>>>>its
>>>>easy to catch them.
>>>
>>>I'm refering to the lower order more unsophistocated dork who does
>>>it because the opportunity presented itself.
>>>
>>>
>>>>But what about political dissidents? What happens
>>>>if our country is taken over by a tyrannt? It will make it easy
>>>>for her
>>>>to locate and remove the resistance - this is the bas eof were
>>>>opposition to the card is coming from. Its not so much the state
>>>>of
>>>>reality in the present, such as the benefits given by its
>>>>proponents of
>>>>the present. Its the future that worries us. The whole national ID
>>>>card
>>>>was covered in Orwellian society.
>>>
>>>You surely can't be serious can you?
>>
>>
>>
>> Tell that to Germany & Europes Jews.
>> Germany was very different before the Nutzis started gaining power
>> & manipulating peoples fears to get their way...
>
> That is true - they were less public with their xenophobic
> tendencies.

Just like so many Australians...

Reaper · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

"Chookie" wrote in message @news-vip.optusnet.com.au...
> In article ,
> "Kwyjibo." wrote:
>
>> You still haven't pointed out any negative aspects of such a card.
>> As no one seems to be able to provide any, should I assume that there is
>> nothing wrong with the proposal?
>
> I'll give it a go then. Are you old enough to remember the Australia Card
> debate?

I am (Just Smile

> 1. Find me a jurisdiction where fraud/terrorism has been wiped out with
> the
> use of identity cards.

None that I know of. So what?

> 2. I used to work with a library database that had about a million
> bibliographic records. Every now and again we'd get a computer-generated
> problem in one of the indexes and it would link to the wrong record. Once
> a
> year, we'd have to rebuild the major indexes. Imagine the consequences of
> a
> computer error in this database. How would it be rectified -- or would
> you be
> deported to South Noodleland as an illegal alien before you could correct
> the
> mistake?

I suspect it would have similar safeguards as Vicroads, the ATO, the stock
exchange, banking, any other major database is handled.

> 3. Now imagine that someone who works with the database doesn't like you.
> Or
> has been bribed by someone who doesn't like you. Or has been bribed to
> pass
> your details on, either for direct marketing, stalking, or for identity
> theft.

No different to the current situation at any of the above institutions. How
many enemies do you have?

> 4. Officially, the database is being set up to carry a small set of
> information. The problem is that it is very easy to link more information
> on
> to it. Your credit record, criminal record, complete health record... and
> you
> won't know that it's happened, or who has access to your records. It
> almost
> goes without saying that John Howard won't know that it's happened
> either...

I said it a few weeks ago - aren't we all getting a bit wrapped up in our
own importance??

> 5. And because you don't know that the information is there, you won't
> know
> whether it's right, either.

Isn't there a privacy law where any institution has to hand over all
relevant personal information about you when you make a request???

Reaper

Chookie · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 71

In article ,
"Kwyjibo." wrote:

> > 1. Find me a jurisdiction where fraud/terrorism has been wiped out
> > with the use of identity cards.
>
> That's not a negative.

It would be interesting to see if fraud has been even *reduced*, though --
given that's what the stated purpose of this system is.

> > 2. I used to work with a library database that had about a million
> > bibliographic records. Every now and again we'd get a
> > computer-generated problem in one of the indexes and it would link to
> > the wrong record.
>
> Using a cheap-arsed database. Using Oracle or DB2 (which something this size
> would require) would greatly minimise the risk. Even if it did happen, it's
> no big deal.

Unless it's *your* record!

> > Once a year, we'd have to rebuild the major
> > indexes. Imagine the consequences of a computer error in this
> > database. How would it be rectified -- or would you be deported to
> > South Noodleland as an illegal alien before you could correct the
> > mistake?
>
> What's to stop the same thing happening now with the Federal Police or DOI
> systems.
> This card will not increase this risk.

A bigger database gives you more possibilities for error.

> > 3. Now imagine that someone who works with the database doesn't like
> > you. Or has been bribed by someone who doesn't like you. Or has
> > been bribed to pass your details on, either for direct marketing,
> > stalking, or for identity theft.
>
> See above. The same thing can happen now. Explain how you think such a card
> will increase this risk?

Currently, my Medicare card is just me and a number. The more of me I have in
one place, like my biometrics, for example, the more serious are the
consequences of a stuff-up. And where the results are lucrative, the risk of
Bad Stuff happening goes up too. So I think both the risk and the consequences
are going to increase.

> > 4. Officially, the database is being set up to carry a small set of
> > information. The problem is that it is very easy to link more
> > information on to it.
>
> Which can happen now with existing systems.

Indeed it can. But at this point, it isn't legal to do so.

> > Your credit record, criminal record, complete
> > health record... and you won't know that it's happened, or who has
> > access to your records. It almost goes without saying that John
> > Howard won't know that it's happened either...
>
> The same thing could happen now.
> How will the card increase this risk?

In which database could it happen now?

> > 5. And because you don't know that the information is there, you
> > won't know whether it's right, either.
>
> See above.
>
> I'll take it that there is no negative aspect to the proposal.

After growing up in the Soviet Union, my Dad was very surprised to discover
that Aussies didn't have ID cards. Having also seem plenty of crime conducted
(and not merely by the regime!) he was well aware that there was no diminution
of crime -- heck, during WW2 he had his own fake ID! -- it only served to
allow the KGB to keep track of you. Can you think of any positive results of
having this ID card?

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue