America's call

Abu-Alwafa · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 23

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Annan throws doubt on international help in Iraq

America's call

The UN position even now is that the Anglo-American invasion and occupation
of Iraq was, and is, illegal.
Therefore, Iraq is a US, and not UN, venture and any UN action in support of
the occupation would violate its own stance and Charter

http://www.uscrusade.com/

Archived from group: aus>education

Trevor Wilson · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 10

"Abu-Alwafa" wrote in message$f7.95218@localhost...
> In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
>
> Annan throws doubt on international help in Iraq
>
> America's call
>
> The UN position even now is that the Anglo-American invasion and
occupation
> of Iraq was, and is, illegal.
> Therefore, Iraq is a US, and not UN, venture and any UN action in support
of
> the occupation would violate its own stance and Charter
>
> http://www.uscrusade.com/
>

**Tell me, Mr Troll: Would it be better that Saddam still be in power, so he
could continue to murder thousands of Muslims, inside and outside Iraq?

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

GD · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in@news.comindico.com.au:

> **Tell me, Mr Troll: Would it be better that Saddam still be in power,
> so he could continue to murder thousands of Muslims, inside and
> outside Iraq?

I'm sorry, I wasnt paying attention. Is that what the invasion
was all about? I foolishly thought it had something to do with
the grave danger to the world caused by Saddams WMD.

Trevor Wilson · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 10

"GD" wrote in message@203.166.23.254...
> "Trevor Wilson" wrote in
> @news.comindico.com.au:
>
> > **Tell me, Mr Troll: Would it be better that Saddam still be in power,
> > so he could continue to murder thousands of Muslims, inside and
> > outside Iraq?
>
>
> I'm sorry, I wasnt paying attention. Is that what the invasion
> was all about? I foolishly thought it had something to do with
> the grave danger to the world caused by Saddams WMD.

**The invasion was about ensuring low priced oil to the US economy. The side
benefit was to the Iraqi people, in that one of the worst dictators ever
seen has been removed from power. It is those side benefits that Muslims,
living in and near iraq, need to consider carefully. THEY are the real
winners. The WMD thing was, of course, a smoke screen. It was an excuse to
invade and not the primary REASON to invade. A secondary reason for the
invasion was to divert the gaze of US voters from the mess in Afghanistan.

If you thought that the WMD thing was why the US invaded, then you are
foolish.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

[#] Mining Pioneer · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

Muhammad was a Jew anyway ... as his two named cousins !
The father of the Prophet in never named either ?
Wondering why ?
You should not!

But the poor Islamists are completely unaware of this... what a lot of poor
people rolled in the flour indeed ! ... over Centuries indeed !

Anyway Islam has been the best and only way to neutralise the Arabs ... and
it has worked right up to now !

Now the nagging question is : How was that achieved by Muhammad ! ... and
later by his conditioning tool the Koran ?

HOW WAS THAT ACHIEVED BY MUHAMMAD ???
Simply ... but the simple answers are not easily understood ...nor is it
any interest at all to give such to the unlearnt !!!

By the way the author of the Schism between Sunnites and Shiites was an
Islam converted Jew !
Weakening further the Arabs was needed indeed, and the poor Islamists feel
for that too !
They are just no match ! Why ?
Simply .... etc.

--
Jean-Paul Turcaud
Hydro & Mining Prospector
Pioneer of Australian Mining
Discoverer of Telfer; Kintyre & Nifty Mines in The Great Sandy Desert.
Discoverer of the South Atlantic Submarine Gold Placers
_ 40 Millions Tons estimate _
Founder of The TRUE GEOLOGY

* The Greatest Australian Mining Covered Up Swindle Of The 20th Century
http://membres.lycos.fr/jpturcaud/
* The True Geology ( previously Refutation of the Horrid Geological Myths )
http://membres.lycos.fr/xxx/ ( Not available due to plagiarism hazards )

Breaking News
"THE GOLDEN RULE"
"Gold and Intrigue in the Desert"
"The true story of the discovery of the Telfer gold mine"
Author : Bob Sheppard, President of the Australian Prospectors' Union
Author's contact & web page : www.tnet.com.au/~warrigal/
Order from : Hesperian Press, PO Box 317 Victoria Park, 6979 W.Australia.
AUS 40.00 + post

Official launching done in Perth this 15th December 2002

~~Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~

"Trevor Wilson" a écrit dans le message de@news.comindico.com.au...
>
> "Abu-Alwafa" wrote in message
> $f7.95218@localhost...
> > In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
> >
> > Annan throws doubt on international help in Iraq
> >
> > America's call
> >
> > The UN position even now is that the Anglo-American invasion and
> occupation
> > of Iraq was, and is, illegal.
> > Therefore, Iraq is a US, and not UN, venture and any UN action in
support
> of
> > the occupation would violate its own stance and Charter
> >
> > http://www.uscrusade.com/
> >
>
> **Tell me, Mr Troll: Would it be better that Saddam still be in power, so
he
> could continue to murder thousands of Muslims, inside and outside Iraq?
>
>
> --
> Trevor Wilson
> www.rageaudio.com.au
>
>

Gregory Shearman · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 13

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:31:18 GMT, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
>"Abu-Alwafa" wrote in message
>$f7.95218@localhost...
>> In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
>>
>> Annan throws doubt on international help in Iraq
>>
>> America's call
>>
>> The UN position even now is that the Anglo-American invasion and
>occupation
>> of Iraq was, and is, illegal.
>> Therefore, Iraq is a US, and not UN, venture and any UN action in support
>of
>> the occupation would violate its own stance and Charter
>>
>> http://www.uscrusade.com/
>>
>
>**Tell me, Mr Troll: Would it be better that Saddam still be in power, so he
>could continue to murder thousands of Muslims, inside and outside Iraq?

Please explain the difference between the USA murdering
thousands of "muslims" and Saddam murdering them.... I can't
think of a difference.... except that the country would not have
been destroyed in the process.

--

Regards,

Gregory.

"Ding-a-Ding Dang, My Dang-a-Long Ling Long."

Gregory Shearman · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 13

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 04:23:10 GMT, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
>"GD" wrote in message
>@203.166.23.254...
>> "Trevor Wilson" wrote in
>> @news.comindico.com.au:
>>
>> > **Tell me, Mr Troll: Would it be better that Saddam still be in power,
>> > so he could continue to murder thousands of Muslims, inside and
>> > outside Iraq?
>>
>>
>> I'm sorry, I wasnt paying attention. Is that what the invasion
>> was all about? I foolishly thought it had something to do with
>> the grave danger to the world caused by Saddams WMD.
>
>**The invasion was about ensuring low priced oil to the US economy. The side
>benefit was to the Iraqi people, in that one of the worst dictators ever
>seen has been removed from power.

Nope..

The US exchanged one dictator with another.

>It is those side benefits that Muslims,
>living in and near iraq, need to consider carefully.

Hmmmm... is that AFTER they get their jobs, electricity, water
and lives back? the USA destroyed it all

>THEY are the real winners.

Yeah, especially the little kiddies with their arms blown off by
US weaponry...

>The WMD thing was, of course, a smoke screen.

Speak without euphemism.

The WMD thing was a lie, therefore the invasion of Iraq was
illegal.

>It was an excuse to invade and not the primary REASON to invade.

The truth is it was the ONLY legal reason to invade. Bush lied
and thousands of Iraqis died... and are still being killed by
the USA.

>A secondary reason for the invasion was to divert the gaze of
>US voters from the mess in Afghanistan.

The US voters wouldn't even know where Afghanistan is....

>If you thought that the WMD thing was why the US invaded, then you are
>foolish.

We know why they invaded, we also know they lied about Iraq
being dangerous. The USA cannot be trusted.

--

Regards,

Gregory.

"Ding-a-Ding Dang, My Dang-a-Long Ling Long."

A bit more than · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 05:05:53 +0200, "[#] Mining Pioneer"
wrote:

> Muhammad was a Jew anyway ... as his two named cousins !

And don't forget that Jeremiah was a bullfrog.

Trevor Wilson · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 10

"Gregory Shearman" wrote in message$d6.102120@nasal.pacific.net.au...
> On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 04:23:10 GMT, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> >
> >"GD" wrote in message
> >@203.166.23.254...
> >> "Trevor Wilson" wrote in
> >> @news.comindico.com.au:
> >>
> >> > **Tell me, Mr Troll: Would it be better that Saddam still be in
power,
> >> > so he could continue to murder thousands of Muslims, inside and
> >> > outside Iraq?
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm sorry, I wasnt paying attention. Is that what the invasion
> >> was all about? I foolishly thought it had something to do with
> >> the grave danger to the world caused by Saddams WMD.
> >
> >**The invasion was about ensuring low priced oil to the US economy. The
side
> >benefit was to the Iraqi people, in that one of the worst dictators ever
> >seen has been removed from power.
>
> Nope..

**Er, yes.

>
> The US exchanged one dictator with another.

**Not yet.

>
> >It is those side benefits that Muslims,
> >living in and near iraq, need to consider carefully.
>
> Hmmmm... is that AFTER they get their jobs, electricity, water
> and lives back? the USA destroyed it all

**No, they did not. The US destroyed SOME of it. The US has also rebuilt
some of it.

>
>
> >THEY are the real winners.
>
> Yeah, especially the little kiddies with their arms blown off by
> US weaponry...

**I don't think so.

>
> >The WMD thing was, of course, a smoke screen.
>
> Speak without euphemism.
>
> The WMD thing was a lie, therefore the invasion of Iraq was
> illegal.

**No argument from me. It was illegal, wrong and stupid.

>
> >It was an excuse to invade and not the primary REASON to invade.
>
> The truth is it was the ONLY legal reason to invade. Bush lied
> and thousands of Iraqis died... and are still being killed by
> the USA.

**Yep. And a whole lot fewer of them are being tortured and murdered by
Saddam. It could be argued that far fewer Iraqis are now being killed by
Americans than would have been killed by Saddam.

>
> >A secondary reason for the invasion was to divert the gaze of
> >US voters from the mess in Afghanistan.
>
> The US voters wouldn't even know where Afghanistan is....

**Very possibly.

>
> >If you thought that the WMD thing was why the US invaded, then you are
> >foolish.
>
> We know why they invaded, we also know they lied about Iraq
> being dangerous. The USA cannot be trusted.

**Of course. It has always been so.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Trevor Wilson · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 10

"Brian Dooley" wrote in message@4ax.com...
>
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 18:44:56 +1000, A bit more than
> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 05:05:53 +0200, "[#] Mining Pioneer"
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Muhammad was a Jew anyway ... as his two named cousins !
> >
> >And don't forget that Jeremiah was a bullfrog.
> >
> What is Kermit?

**A handpuppet.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Brian Dooley · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 16

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 18:44:56 +1000, A bit more than
wrote:

>On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 05:05:53 +0200, "[#] Mining Pioneer"
> wrote:
>
>> Muhammad was a Jew anyway ... as his two named cousins !
>
>And don't forget that Jeremiah was a bullfrog.
>
What is Kermit?

--
Brian Dooley

Wellington New Zealand

Gregory Shearman · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 13

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:24:32 GMT, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> >
>> >**The invasion was about ensuring low priced oil to the US economy. The
>side
>> >benefit was to the Iraqi people, in that one of the worst dictators ever
>> >seen has been removed from power.
>>
>> Nope..
>
>**Er, yes.

Nope. See below.

>> The US exchanged one dictator with another.
>
>**Not yet.

So, is a military governor a democracy?

>> Hmmmm... is that AFTER they get their jobs, electricity, water
>> and lives back? the USA destroyed it all
>
>**No, they did not. The US destroyed SOME of it. The US has also rebuilt
>some of it.

Paying for it with Iraqi money...

>> The truth is it was the ONLY legal reason to invade. Bush lied
>> and thousands of Iraqis died... and are still being killed by
>> the USA.
>
>**Yep. And a whole lot fewer of them are being tortured and murdered by
>Saddam. It could be argued that far fewer Iraqis are now being killed by
>Americans than would have been killed by Saddam.

You COULD argue it, but I think you'd be wrong. Iraqis are now
being killed and tortured by the US military. How many did
Saddam torture and kill in the last few years? More than killed
by the USA?

How many kiddies were wiped out by UN sanctions forced on Iraq
by the USA? Half a million? How many did Saddam kill?

--

Regards,

Gregory.

"Ding-a-Ding Dang, My Dang-a-Long Ling Long."

Trevor Wilson · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 10

"Gregory Shearman" wrote in message$d6.106842@nasal.pacific.net.au...
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:24:32 GMT, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> >> >
> >> >**The invasion was about ensuring low priced oil to the US economy.
The
> >side
> >> >benefit was to the Iraqi people, in that one of the worst dictators
ever
> >> >seen has been removed from power.
> >>
> >> Nope..
> >
> >**Er, yes.
>
> Nope. See below.
>
> >> The US exchanged one dictator with another.
> >
> >**Not yet.
>
> So, is a military governor a democracy?

**Sure it is. Like Japan, nearly 60 years ago, the US set up a military
governor, then put in place a democratic system of government. Japan seems
to have survived the US invasion quite nicely. Iraq will too.

>
> >> Hmmmm... is that AFTER they get their jobs, electricity, water
> >> and lives back? the USA destroyed it all
> >
> >**No, they did not. The US destroyed SOME of it. The US has also rebuilt
> >some of it.
>
> Paying for it with Iraqi money...

**Of course. With some 25% of the planet's oil, they can easily afford it.

>
> >> The truth is it was the ONLY legal reason to invade. Bush lied
> >> and thousands of Iraqis died... and are still being killed by
> >> the USA.
> >
> >**Yep. And a whole lot fewer of them are being tortured and murdered by
> >Saddam. It could be argued that far fewer Iraqis are now being killed by
> >Americans than would have been killed by Saddam.
>
> You COULD argue it, but I think you'd be wrong. Iraqis are now
> being killed and tortured by the US military.

**How many are being tortured and killed?

How many did
> Saddam torture and kill in the last few years?

**Maybe 500,000. Hard to say. I suspect record-keeping was not top of the
list of important things to do.

More than killed
> by the USA?

**By a considerable margin.

>
> How many kiddies were wiped out by UN sanctions forced on Iraq
> by the USA? Half a million? How many did Saddam kill?

**Saddam could have put a stop to the deaths of his own citizens by the
simple expedient of allowing weapons inspectors into Iraq. AS part of his
surrender, he agreed to this. He reneged on that decision.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Trevor Wilson · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 10

"Gary K" wrote in message%ocean1@removeiinet.net.au...
> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
> > "Gregory Shearman" wrote in message
> > $d6.106842@nasal.pacific.net.au...
>
> > >
> > > So, is a military governor a democracy?
> >
> > **Sure it is. Like Japan, nearly 60 years ago, the US set up a military
> > governor, then put in place a democratic system of government. Japan
seems
> > to have survived the US invasion quite nicely. Iraq will too.
>
> The problem with the Americans is that they think everyone is like them,
> or the Japanese or the Germans. There are huge differences, there is no
> monarchy for Iraqis to look up to, like the Japanese had. Their
> religious leaders are against the American invasion. They are viewed as
> a Zionist occupation, the enemy, no wonder the Americans are under daily
> attack in the streets. Democracies, with 100 political parties, in a
> land that is unsuited, under such conditions fail.

**They are under daily attack as part of the destabilisation attempts of
Saddam loyalists and other groups. On balance, the majority of the Iraq
population is happy to have the US troops there. The US relationship with
Israel is most definitely a big problem. In fact, it is the biggest problem.
It could be argued that it is the cause of much of the mess in the Middle
East.

>
> Now there are at least a million Shiites in Iran waiting to cross the
> borders (looks like they already started). The main reason why Bush
> Senior didn't invade the first time.
> The yanks have dug themselves into a fine little hell hole this time..

**Yep. Without the backing of the UN, they're not in a good place.

>
> > >
> > > >> Hmmmm... is that AFTER they get their jobs, electricity, water
> > > >> and lives back? the USA destroyed it all
> > > >
> > > >**No, they did not. The US destroyed SOME of it. The US has also
rebuilt
> > > >some of it.
> > >
> > > Paying for it with Iraqi money...
> >
> > **Of course. With some 25% of the planet's oil, they can easily afford
it.
>
> Confirming the suspicions the Iraqis have of the Americans.

**No-one with more than 10 functioning brain cells would have thought
otherwise.

>
> > >
> > > >> The truth is it was the ONLY legal reason to invade. Bush lied
> > > >> and thousands of Iraqis died... and are still being killed by
> > > >> the USA.
>
> >
> > How many did
> > > Saddam torture and kill in the last few years?
> >
> > **Maybe 500,000. Hard to say. I suspect record-keeping was not top of
the
> > list of important things to do.
>
> There is nothing we can do about it (you are making up figures anyway).

**I'm not making the figures up. They are reasonable estimates.

> The US had been at war with the Arab world for 30 years. Suddenly they
> are friends "doing whats good for you". It doesn't wash.

**The US has been friends with Saudi Arabia for decades.

>
> >
> > **Saddam could have put a stop to the deaths of his own citizens by the
> > simple expedient of allowing weapons inspectors into Iraq. AS part of
his
> > surrender, he agreed to this. He reneged on that decision.
>
> They were complying, to the chagrin of the US who just wanted to invade,
> and did anyway.

**Saddam was not complying. That is why the US invaded. Saddam kept the
inspectors out for several years. Had he allowed the inspections to continue
(which was part of the surrender agreement) the wholoe mess would have been
averted. Make no mistake: The US invasion was illegal. If Saddam had kept to
the surrender agreement (don't forget: he was comprehensively clobbered in
the first war), the US would have not had any excuse to invade.

>
> There are tyrants everywhere, why dont the Americans attack them too..

**I agree. The US is invading Iraq, almost solely to ensure cheap oil
supplies, to prevent its economy from going belly-up. The US has chosen the
easy target, first. There are a couple of likely reasons for this:
* Because they knew they would win.
* They figured that it might show the other dictators that Dubya means
business and is prepared to do what is required.
* Dubya wanted to make sure he will serve a second term.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Gary K · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

Trevor Wilson wrote:

> "Gregory Shearman" wrote in message
> $d6.106842@nasal.pacific.net.au...

> >
> > So, is a military governor a democracy?
>
> **Sure it is. Like Japan, nearly 60 years ago, the US set up a military
> governor, then put in place a democratic system of government. Japan seems
> to have survived the US invasion quite nicely. Iraq will too.

The problem with the Americans is that they think everyone is like them,
or the Japanese or the Germans. There are huge differences, there is no
monarchy for Iraqis to look up to, like the Japanese had. Their
religious leaders are against the American invasion. They are viewed as
a Zionist occupation, the enemy, no wonder the Americans are under daily
attack in the streets. Democracies, with 100 political parties, in a
land that is unsuited, under such conditions fail.

Now there are at least a million Shiites in Iran waiting to cross the
borders (looks like they already started). The main reason why Bush
Senior didn't invade the first time.
The yanks have dug themselves into a fine little hell hole this time..

> >
> > >> Hmmmm... is that AFTER they get their jobs, electricity, water
> > >> and lives back? the USA destroyed it all
> > >
> > >**No, they did not. The US destroyed SOME of it. The US has also rebuilt
> > >some of it.
> >
> > Paying for it with Iraqi money...
>
> **Of course. With some 25% of the planet's oil, they can easily afford it.

Confirming the suspicions the Iraqis have of the Americans.

> >
> > >> The truth is it was the ONLY legal reason to invade. Bush lied
> > >> and thousands of Iraqis died... and are still being killed by
> > >> the USA.

>
> How many did
> > Saddam torture and kill in the last few years?
>
> **Maybe 500,000. Hard to say. I suspect record-keeping was not top of the
> list of important things to do.

There is nothing we can do about it (you are making up figures anyway).
The US had been at war with the Arab world for 30 years. Suddenly they
are friends "doing whats good for you". It doesn't wash.

>
> **Saddam could have put a stop to the deaths of his own citizens by the
> simple expedient of allowing weapons inspectors into Iraq. AS part of his
> surrender, he agreed to this. He reneged on that decision.

They were complying, to the chagrin of the US who just wanted to invade,
and did anyway.

There are tyrants everywhere, why dont the Americans attack them too..