Oversized Classrooms

manha80567 · Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 1

Teaching in an inner city school has its benefits and its pitfalls.
How do teachers overcome the task of working alone with 26 to 30
students? How can students learn in that environment when some of
them are far behind because they are not getting the support they need
at home? Students are coming to school unprepared and not ready for
kindergarten and then teachers are expected to make miracles happen.
How much do they want us to really accomplish with no assistance in
our classrooms?

Can smaller class sizes help the students achieve more? Its not about
lowering the achievement gap its about getting the students ready for
the next grade that they are going to attend. Can one teacher really
do all the work? Can the students see the importance of school with
just one teacher beating it in their head that they need school to
live and survive today?

Archived from group: k12>chat>teacher

Rowley · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 499

manha80567@aol.com wrote:
> Teaching in an inner city school has its benefits and its pitfalls.

Teaching in any school has those.

> How do teachers overcome the task of working alone with 26 to 30
> students?

Classroom management.

> How can students learn in that environment when some of
> them are far behind because they are not getting the support they need
> at home?

A lot of kids don't get the support that they need at home - IMO, they
tend to be more in the majority than a special exception.

> Students are coming to school unprepared and not ready for
> kindergarten and then teachers are expected to make miracles happen.

Expectations are one thing, reality is another. The process is what it is.

> How much do they want us to really accomplish with no assistance in
> our classrooms?

As much as was accomplished last week, last month, last semester, last
year, and what was accomplished as far back as you want to go. The
'problems' with public education aren't necessarily 'new' - people have
been worried about it for a long long time..... Yet, it continues on -
doing what it does. And so far society in general hasn't come tumbling down.

> Can smaller class sizes help the students achieve more?

Studies show that it helps. But smaller classes mean a bigger
infrastructure - for any 'improvement' there are going to be benefits
and its pitfalls. Question is - are the 'improvements' worth the new
pitfalls?

> Its not about
> lowering the achievement gap its about getting the students ready for
> the next grade that they are going to attend. Can one teacher really
> do all the work?

IMO, yes they can and historically have been.

> Can the students see the importance of school with
> just one teacher beating it in their head that they need school to
> live and survive today?

IMO, schools are collectives. If it is just the one teacher that is
tasked with making the student "see the importance of school", then what
are the rest of the faculty doing? The message "the importance of
school" should be something that every employee of a school needs to be
communicating to the student, their parents, and to the community as a
whole. And the message needs to be more than just a catchy mission
statement.

Martin

>
>

smilverton · Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 8

Hi
This is an interesting topic. i am the principal in a small rural
school in Australia. We average class sizes of around 20 students. Our
facilities and grounds are able to provide for this amount of classes
comfortably. Luckily, my teachers are very motivated and experienced.
I thisnk that the class size does have a bearing on student learning,
particularly when you get up around 300 students. I have taught
classes of 36 and it was very difficult to push everyone along.

The quality of teaching as as much impact on student learning as the
class size. i would argue that is has a greater im[pact. If a teacher
is able to develop a positive and friendly rapport while setting
challenging, but achievable learning expectations with the class, then
this will determine that learning success in the classroom. Yeah, the
class size adds extra work load and management challenges to teh
teacher's daily work but it doesn't doom the kids from day one.

Regards
Steve Milverton
http://groups.google.com/group/principals-desk

On Feb 22, 3:33 pm, manha80...@aol.com wrote:
> Teaching in an inner city school has its benefits and its pitfalls.
> How do teachers overcome the task of working alone with 26 to 30
> students? How can students learn in that environment when some of
> them are far behind because they are not getting the support they need
> at home? Students are coming to school unprepared and not ready for
> kindergarten and then teachers are expected to make miracles happen.
> How much do they want us to really accomplish with no assistance in
> our classrooms?
>
> Can smaller class sizes help the students achieve more? Its not about
> lowering the achievement gap its about getting the students ready for
> the next grade that they are going to attend. Can one teacher really
> do all the work? Can the students see the importance of school with
> just one teacher beating it in their head that they need school to
> live and survive today?

toto · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 2069

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:16:07 -0800 (PST), "smilverton@gmail.com"
wrote:

>This is an interesting topic. i am the principal in a small rural
>school in Australia. We average class sizes of around 20 students.

Interesting research article on small class sizes. Note that the
research is speaking of class sizes of less than 20.

http://www.weac.org/sage/research/gsclasssize.htm

Research shows that small classes at the early elementary grades can
make a significant and long lasting difference in student achievement.
This is the conclusion of those who evaluated the effects of Project
STAR, a study that Frederick Mosteller, professor emeritus of
mathematical statistics at Harvard University, has described as one of
the most important educational investigations ever done (Mosteller,
1995, p. 113).

Although Project STAR showed significant positive effects for students
in grades K-3, this does not mean that smaller classes might not have
similar benefits at other grade levels. We simply don’t know. What we
do know is that much of the research at other grade levels on the
effects of class size has not made use of classic, experimental
designs, as was done with Project STAR). In addition, the studies
usually have been of short duration and did not did not consider the
effects of very small class sizes (13-17 students), as was done in the
Tennessee research.

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

Rowley · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 499

When I was growing up and going to school (k-3), I seem to remember
being in small classes (no clue as to just how many, but the class group
photos shows about 20 or so kids), one of the interesting things (IMO)
from that experience - it seemed to be the same group of kids in the
classes, and most of us continued to be in the same classes all the way
till graduation (12th grade).

Martin

toto wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:16:07 -0800 (PST), "smilverton@gmail.com"
> wrote:
>
>
>>This is an interesting topic. i am the principal in a small rural
>>school in Australia. We average class sizes of around 20 students.
>
>
> Interesting research article on small class sizes. Note that the
> research is speaking of class sizes of less than 20.
>
> http://www.weac.org/sage/research/gsclasssize.htm
>
> Research shows that small classes at the early elementary grades can
> make a significant and long lasting difference in student achievement.
> This is the conclusion of those who evaluated the effects of Project
> STAR, a study that Frederick Mosteller, professor emeritus of
> mathematical statistics at Harvard University, has described as one of
> the most important educational investigations ever done (Mosteller,
> 1995, p. 113).
>
> Although Project STAR showed significant positive effects for students
> in grades K-3, this does not mean that smaller classes might not have
> similar benefits at other grade levels. We simply don’t know. What we
> do know is that much of the research at other grade levels on the
> effects of class size has not made use of classic, experimental
> designs, as was done with Project STAR). In addition, the studies
> usually have been of short duration and did not did not consider the
> effects of very small class sizes (13-17 students), as was done in the
> Tennessee research.
>
>
>

toto · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 2069

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:08:45 -0600, Rowley
wrote:

>When I was growing up and going to school (k-3), I seem to remember
>being in small classes (no clue as to just how many, but the class group
>photos shows about 20 or so kids), one of the interesting things (IMO)
>from that experience - it seemed to be the same group of kids in the
>classes, and most of us continued to be in the same classes all the way
>till graduation (12th grade).
>
>Martin

Well, in K and 1st, I was in a Catholic school with 60 to 65 children
in my class. In 2nd, I was switched to public school and I believe
there were 30 in the classes there.

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

Rowley · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 499

I did K at a church school, don't think there was that grade at the
public school.....

Martin

toto wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:08:45 -0600, Rowley
> wrote:
>
>
>>When I was growing up and going to school (k-3), I seem to remember
>>being in small classes (no clue as to just how many, but the class group
>>photos shows about 20 or so kids), one of the interesting things (IMO)
>
>>from that experience - it seemed to be the same group of kids in the
>
>>classes, and most of us continued to be in the same classes all the way
>>till graduation (12th grade).
>>
>>Martin
>
>
> Well, in K and 1st, I was in a Catholic school with 60 to 65 children
> in my class. In 2nd, I was switched to public school and I believe
> there were 30 in the classes there.
>
>

survey on inclusion of issues of conflict in classrooms hey all, i am doing a study on teachers perceptions of inclusion of issues of conflict in classrooms. please complete it and send it to it is a very intresting and a meaningful survey. it will take only 5-10 minutes to complete. lo

Separate classrooms vs inclusive classrooms I am in my last semester of my education sequence and am looking forward to my future occupation; however, there are several issues that have been plaguing my mind as of late. I am torn between the ideas of separate or inclusive classrooms. On the one ha

what's going on in your classrooms? Ive just finished reading this ebook i found on lulu while doing some research for my course, called 'pet peeves of a teaching assistant - what i wish i could tell your kids' and i must say i had no idea! it's not for t

see samples of bulletin boards from classrooms around the US These were posted by teachers to share with others also use the site search engine to find more free resources.

Mexican flags in Denver Public Schools Classrooms? Mexican flags in United States Classrooms? The Rocky Mountain News featured a Denver North High School classroom displaying the Mexican flag next to an American flag. Because of public outrage, the foreign flag was removed, but will be put back up on a t