Howard confused about teaching History - Wants to teach Fai

Don H · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 187

"fasgnadh" wrote in message$0$23753$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
>
>
> The Prime Minister's push to overhaul the teaching of history,
> is making him look silly as the Commonwealth is already
> spending millions of dollars to teach what he's complaining
> is not taught! B^D
>
>
> "Australia Day: PM wants new history"
> - The Herald Sun 26/1/2006
>
> In 1984 they rewrote New History every day!
>
> Howard is always trying to rewrite history to
> suit his White Eyepatch view, but this latest
> outburst show he is either out of touch or
> is doing a little of the Dog Whistling he is
> famous for;
>
>
> "Mr Howard condemned teachers yesterday for focusing
> on abstract themes at the expense of the timeline of
> history.
>
> "Too often, it is taught without any sense of structured
> narrative, replaced by a fragmented stew of themes
> and issues," he said.
> ...
>
> Mr Howard said it was ridiculous to think history could
> be taught without students knowing when the Battle of
> Hastings was fought (1066) or when Captain Cook arrived
> in Australia (1770)."
>
> The PM's emphassis on Date's and Timelines seems odd,
> as these certainly are taught already.. has he had a look
> at the VCE History Exam? B^p
>
> BTW: The Battle of Hastings is ENGLISH History, not Australian
> History! BD
>
> What's more, his concern that students are taught
> Themes, such as Australians at War , and issues,
> such as Anzac Day, bring those dates ALIVE for young
> students.
>
>
> "Kate Cameron, the immediate past national president of the History
> Teachers' Association, says Mr Howard of all people should know the
> Commonwealth has invested millions of dollars into the teaching of
history.
>
> She says the prime minister will soon realise his claims that young
> people do not have a full understanding of Australian history are
unfounded.
>
> "Well, I don't know what he would base that assertion upon - he just
> said it was obvious to him but he didn't explain what his sources were
> about how obvious it was," Ms Cameron told ABC Radio.
>
> "I think he's going to be extremely embarrassed when he realises that
> his own government has poured millions of dollars into providing
> wonderful teaching resources and professional development opportunities
> ... to promote the teaching of Australian history."
>
>
> Whats more, it is through looking at Gallipoli, and Kokoda
> that Australian Values such as mateship and self sacrifice
> are explored!
>
> The PM is also contradicting himself because elsewhere he claims
> teaching those values IS important.. (Is he getting Past It?)! B^p
>
> "At the National Press Club in Canberra today, John Howard talked about
> the balance between maintaining Australian values, and allowing sections
> of the community to express their culture and beliefs."
>
> So how do we teach what those Australian values are unless
> we teach the about Simpson, and the Anzac tradition,
> themes of Mateship and loyalty.. rather than the Date
> which King Fauntleroy ascended to the British throne!?
> (After all, they are all pretenders after the French
> Bastard ascended the throne! B^0
>
>
> It also sounds as if The PM wants to teach beliefs, HIS beliefs,
> rather than teaching facts and letting students decide for
> themselves what they believe in.... he sounds more like a
> Cardinal discussin RE classes, or a Mullah in a Madrassa,
> than the PM of a secular education system;
>
> "We should have faith in what we have achieved and what we have become,"
> he said.
>
> "The Howard vision for teaching would cover
> indigenous history, the influence of the West
> and the stories of nations who fed European settlement."
>
> But thats simply a strategy for excluding some immigrants
> in favour of the PM's ethnic group!
>
> His prescription, Dates and Timelines, would mean NOTHING
> would be taught in the proposed 'indigenous history' other
> than some distant arrival date and White Settlement.
>
> Indigenous history is not about dates and timelines, so his
> call to have more of 1066 and All That, and effectively
> abolish indigenous history about events, values and meaning.
>
> And 'the stories of Nations who fed European settlement'
> means your kids learn about Serbs and Croats, but not
> about the Chinese who arrived much earlier, or the Vietnamese,
> whose story is interwoven with our own! B^p
>
> As usual, it appears as if he has his usual agenda, and what
> a cheap ploy to fire his shots in the Culture Wars on Australia
> Day! B^p
>
> The ALP simply pointed out the Federal governments role in
> educating History teachers "after an inquiry five years
> ago identified the need to improve preparation of university
> history teachers."
>
> "More than five years later John Howard is speaking about the same
> problems," Ms Macklin said. "If he is so concerned about history
> teaching he should ask (former education minister) Brendan Nelson what
> he has been doing."
>
> State Education ministers just seem puzzled what the PM was
> raving about, as Dates, timelines and Chronology are the
> essence of history traching.. but so is understanding what the
> events MEANT, and how values developed!
>
> "Australia's evolution as a nation and its development is
> a critical part of the curriculum taught in Victorian schools,"
>
>
> Howard, stuck in the 1950's is out of touch and out of DATE! B^)
>
>
> --
>
> "There is a fundamental distinction between
> multicultural and Multiculturalism, which racists
> constantly and deliberately confuse.
>
> A society is multicultural if it has more than one
> culture being practised within that society.
>
> 'Multicultural - A society which embraces a number
> of minority cultures' - Macquarie Dictionary
>
> Multiculturalism is two things, the -ISM indicates that it
> is a set of beliefs or ideas about multiculture,
> ie a recognition of multicultural REALITY, an acceptance of it,
> a celebration of it.
> But it is ALSO a set of government policies to
> formalize that recognition, acceptance and celebration!
> Thus the Howard government has a Department which documents
> the positive economic social and foreign policy benefits from
> having a successful, open, democratic multicultural society."
>
> - fasgnadh
>
>
> "When Fasnag talks multiculturalism -> people living in Australia have
> come from different cultures, and live different lives that could be
> categorised into groups if you chose to do so.
>
> When I talk multiculturalism -> the formal policy at a governmental
> level"
>
> - Rev. Headjob, liar and thief
> demonstrating the deliberate confusion.
> Message-ID:
>
>
> ------------
>
> The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;
>
> http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html
>
>
> The true-blue Homestead;
>
> http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/
>
>
> The true-blue Hall Of Fame;
>
> http://www.geocities.com/trueblue_hall_of_fame/index.html
>
>
> The Tuckerbox;
>
> http://www.geocities.com/true_blue_tucker_box/index.html
>
>
> -----------
# Is history only a matter of opinion? or is it factual?
There can be many selective or interpretative views of history, but only one
set of facts actually match the events. It is the determining of what
happened which can be a problem, but it is possible.
The Objective view of History contrasts with the Subjective, which claims
that all is subjective and relative. Did The Holocaust happen? There can
only be one answer, according to the objective viewpoint - either it did, or
it didn't.
Then there is the Evaluation of History; which is not the same as being
Subjective, but does involve such element. Having determined the Facts,
what Value do we put on them? Was White Settlement of Australia a good or
bad thing? This can be assessed in various ways - but the facts can be
taught, while evaluation can be left to the individual to determine.
Same with teaching Science, whose facts are more easily determined than
History. True, scientists in the past had their view of empirical data
coloured by their religious or other viewpoint, but this doesn't mean that
the science itself is subjective or relative - though we must make allowance
for historical context.
Facts are facts, and we must face them. Let's clarify the issues
involved. Words such as post-modernism, outcomes-based education, and
culturally-determined, might sound impressive - but are they merely
intellectual garbage?
Thern there's Futurology, the most important science of the modern age.
Is Global Warming occurring, and is it part of a natural cycle, or is it
man-made? Again, facts are needed: meteorological data can determine if
recent events are unique or part of a recurring pattern. Why should such
pattern recur at a time when humans are at a peak of their technological and
exploitative power? And how can we determine what is really natural -
unless we first eliminate the Human Factor? Don't bother to try? Or wait
until it may be too late to do so? Again what is Objective, as compared
with Subjective, and how to distinguish one from the other?

Archived from group: aus>politics

fasgnadh · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 13

The Prime Minister's push to overhaul the teaching of history,
is making him look silly as the Commonwealth is already
spending millions of dollars to teach what he's complaining
is not taught! B^D

"Australia Day: PM wants new history"
- The Herald Sun 26/1/2006

In 1984 they rewrote New History every day!

Howard is always trying to rewrite history to
suit his White Eyepatch view, but this latest
outburst show he is either out of touch or
is doing a little of the Dog Whistling he is
famous for;

"Mr Howard condemned teachers yesterday for focusing
on abstract themes at the expense of the timeline of
history.

"Too often, it is taught without any sense of structured
narrative, replaced by a fragmented stew of themes
and issues," he said.
....

Mr Howard said it was ridiculous to think history could
be taught without students knowing when the Battle of
Hastings was fought (1066) or when Captain Cook arrived
in Australia (1770)."

The PM's emphassis on Date's and Timelines seems odd,
as these certainly are taught already.. has he had a look
at the VCE History Exam? B^p

BTW: The Battle of Hastings is ENGLISH History, not Australian
History! BD

What's more, his concern that students are taught
Themes, such as Australians at War , and issues,
such as Anzac Day, bring those dates ALIVE for young
students.

"Kate Cameron, the immediate past national president of the History
Teachers' Association, says Mr Howard of all people should know the
Commonwealth has invested millions of dollars into the teaching of history.

She says the prime minister will soon realise his claims that young
people do not have a full understanding of Australian history are unfounded.

"Well, I don't know what he would base that assertion upon - he just
said it was obvious to him but he didn't explain what his sources were
about how obvious it was," Ms Cameron told ABC Radio.

"I think he's going to be extremely embarrassed when he realises that
his own government has poured millions of dollars into providing
wonderful teaching resources and professional development opportunities
.... to promote the teaching of Australian history."

Whats more, it is through looking at Gallipoli, and Kokoda
that Australian Values such as mateship and self sacrifice
are explored!

The PM is also contradicting himself because elsewhere he claims
teaching those values IS important.. (Is he getting Past It?)! B^p

"At the National Press Club in Canberra today, John Howard talked about
the balance between maintaining Australian values, and allowing sections
of the community to express their culture and beliefs."

So how do we teach what those Australian values are unless
we teach the about Simpson, and the Anzac tradition,
themes of Mateship and loyalty.. rather than the Date
which King Fauntleroy ascended to the British throne!?
(After all, they are all pretenders after the French
Bastard ascended the throne! B^0

It also sounds as if The PM wants to teach beliefs, HIS beliefs,
rather than teaching facts and letting students decide for
themselves what they believe in.... he sounds more like a
Cardinal discussin RE classes, or a Mullah in a Madrassa,
than the PM of a secular education system;

"We should have faith in what we have achieved and what we have become,"
he said.

"The Howard vision for teaching would cover
indigenous history, the influence of the West
and the stories of nations who fed European settlement."

But thats simply a strategy for excluding some immigrants
in favour of the PM's ethnic group!

His prescription, Dates and Timelines, would mean NOTHING
would be taught in the proposed 'indigenous history' other
than some distant arrival date and White Settlement.

Indigenous history is not about dates and timelines, so his
call to have more of 1066 and All That, and effectively
abolish indigenous history about events, values and meaning.

And 'the stories of Nations who fed European settlement'
means your kids learn about Serbs and Croats, but not
about the Chinese who arrived much earlier, or the Vietnamese,
whose story is interwoven with our own! B^p

As usual, it appears as if he has his usual agenda, and what
a cheap ploy to fire his shots in the Culture Wars on Australia
Day! B^p

The ALP simply pointed out the Federal governments role in
educating History teachers "after an inquiry five years
ago identified the need to improve preparation of university
history teachers."

"More than five years later John Howard is speaking about the same
problems," Ms Macklin said. "If he is so concerned about history
teaching he should ask (former education minister) Brendan Nelson what
he has been doing."

State Education ministers just seem puzzled what the PM was
raving about, as Dates, timelines and Chronology are the
essence of history traching.. but so is understanding what the
events MEANT, and how values developed!

"Australia's evolution as a nation and its development is
a critical part of the curriculum taught in Victorian schools,"

Howard, stuck in the 1950's is out of touch and out of DATE! B^)

--

"There is a fundamental distinction between
multicultural and Multiculturalism, which racists
constantly and deliberately confuse.

A society is multicultural if it has more than one
culture being practised within that society.

'Multicultural - A society which embraces a number
of minority cultures' - Macquarie Dictionary

Multiculturalism is two things, the -ISM indicates that it
is a set of beliefs or ideas about multiculture,
ie a recognition of multicultural REALITY, an acceptance of it,
a celebration of it.
But it is ALSO a set of government policies to
formalize that recognition, acceptance and celebration!
Thus the Howard government has a Department which documents
the positive economic social and foreign policy benefits from
having a successful, open, democratic multicultural society."

- fasgnadh

"When Fasnag talks multiculturalism -> people living in Australia have
come from different cultures, and live different lives that could be
categorised into groups if you chose to do so.

When I talk multiculturalism -> the formal policy at a governmental
level"

- Rev. Headjob, liar and thief
demonstrating the deliberate confusion.
Message-ID:

------------

The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html

The true-blue Homestead;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/

The true-blue Hall Of Fame;

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-----------

Rev Head · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:50:13 +1100, fasgnadh
wrote:

>
>
>
>The Prime Minister's push to overhaul the teaching of history,
>is making him look silly as the Commonwealth is already
>spending millions of dollars to teach what he's complaining
>is not taught! B^D

1. Great man John Howard and great idea he has.

2. I see the change to a briefer posting style didn't last - you just
wont learn will you !!!

>"Australia Day: PM wants new history"
> - The Herald Sun 26/1/2006
>
> In 1984 they rewrote New History every day!
>
> Howard is always trying to rewrite history to
> suit his White Eyepatch view, but this latest
> outburst show he is either out of touch or
> is doing a little of the Dog Whistling he is
> famous for;
>
>
>"Mr Howard condemned teachers yesterday for focusing
>on abstract themes at the expense of the timeline of
>history.
>
>"Too often, it is taught without any sense of structured
>narrative, replaced by a fragmented stew of themes
>and issues," he said.
>...
>
>Mr Howard said it was ridiculous to think history could
>be taught without students knowing when the Battle of
>Hastings was fought (1066) or when Captain Cook arrived
>in Australia (1770)."
>
> The PM's emphassis on Date's and Timelines seems odd,
> as these certainly are taught already.. has he had a look
> at the VCE History Exam? B^p
>
> BTW: The Battle of Hastings is ENGLISH History, not Australian
> History! BD
>
> What's more, his concern that students are taught
> Themes, such as Australians at War , and issues,
> such as Anzac Day, bring those dates ALIVE for young
> students.
>
>
>"Kate Cameron, the immediate past national president of the History
>Teachers' Association, says Mr Howard of all people should know the
>Commonwealth has invested millions of dollars into the teaching of history.
>
>She says the prime minister will soon realise his claims that young
>people do not have a full understanding of Australian history are unfounded.
>
>"Well, I don't know what he would base that assertion upon - he just
>said it was obvious to him but he didn't explain what his sources were
>about how obvious it was," Ms Cameron told ABC Radio.
>
>"I think he's going to be extremely embarrassed when he realises that
>his own government has poured millions of dollars into providing
>wonderful teaching resources and professional development opportunities
>... to promote the teaching of Australian history."
>
>
> Whats more, it is through looking at Gallipoli, and Kokoda
> that Australian Values such as mateship and self sacrifice
> are explored!
>
> The PM is also contradicting himself because elsewhere he claims
> teaching those values IS important.. (Is he getting Past It?)! B^p
>
>"At the National Press Club in Canberra today, John Howard talked about
>the balance between maintaining Australian values, and allowing sections
>of the community to express their culture and beliefs."
>
> So how do we teach what those Australian values are unless
> we teach the about Simpson, and the Anzac tradition,
> themes of Mateship and loyalty.. rather than the Date
> which King Fauntleroy ascended to the British throne!?
> (After all, they are all pretenders after the French
> Bastard ascended the throne! B^0
>
>
> It also sounds as if The PM wants to teach beliefs, HIS beliefs,
> rather than teaching facts and letting students decide for
> themselves what they believe in.... he sounds more like a
> Cardinal discussin RE classes, or a Mullah in a Madrassa,
> than the PM of a secular education system;
>
>"We should have faith in what we have achieved and what we have become,"
>he said.
>
>"The Howard vision for teaching would cover
>indigenous history, the influence of the West
>and the stories of nations who fed European settlement."
>
> But thats simply a strategy for excluding some immigrants
> in favour of the PM's ethnic group!
>
> His prescription, Dates and Timelines, would mean NOTHING
> would be taught in the proposed 'indigenous history' other
> than some distant arrival date and White Settlement.
>
> Indigenous history is not about dates and timelines, so his
> call to have more of 1066 and All That, and effectively
> abolish indigenous history about events, values and meaning.
>
> And 'the stories of Nations who fed European settlement'
> means your kids learn about Serbs and Croats, but not
> about the Chinese who arrived much earlier, or the Vietnamese,
> whose story is interwoven with our own! B^p
>
> As usual, it appears as if he has his usual agenda, and what
> a cheap ploy to fire his shots in the Culture Wars on Australia
> Day! B^p
>
> The ALP simply pointed out the Federal governments role in
> educating History teachers "after an inquiry five years
> ago identified the need to improve preparation of university
> history teachers."
>
>"More than five years later John Howard is speaking about the same
>problems," Ms Macklin said. "If he is so concerned about history
>teaching he should ask (former education minister) Brendan Nelson what
>he has been doing."
>
> State Education ministers just seem puzzled what the PM was
> raving about, as Dates, timelines and Chronology are the
> essence of history traching.. but so is understanding what the
> events MEANT, and how values developed!
>
>"Australia's evolution as a nation and its development is
>a critical part of the curriculum taught in Victorian schools,"
>
>
>Howard, stuck in the 1950's is out of touch and out of DATE! B^)
>
>
>--
>
>"There should be a fundamental distinction between
>multicultural and Multiculturalism.
>
>A society is multicultural if it has more than one ethnic enclave of people living
>living completely seperate from the rest of the community.
>
>'Multicultural - A society which embraces a number
>of minority cultures' - Macquarie Dictionary
>
>Multiculturalism is two things, the -ISM indicates that it
>is a set of beliefs or ideas about multiculture,
>ie a recognition of multicultural REALITY, an acceptance of it,
>a celebration of it.
>But it is ALSO a set of government policies to
>formalize that recognition, and allow ethnic enclaves to disallow members
>of their community from mixing with other ethnic groups.!"
>
> - fasgnadh
>
>
>"When Fasnag talks multiculturalism -> people living in Australia can
>live in seperate enclaves and use law to force community members rights
>not to mix
>When I talk multiculturalism -> the destructive formal policy at a governmental
>level"
>
> - Rev. Headjob,
> demonstrating my confusion.
> Message-ID:
>
>
>------------
>
>The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;
>
> http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html
>
>
>The true-blue Homestead;
>
> http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/
>
>
>The true-blue Hall Of Fame;
>
> http://www.geocities.com/trueblue_hall_of_fame/index.html
>
>
>The Tuckerbox;
>
> http://www.geocities.com/true_blue_tucker_box/index.html
>
>
>-----------

Neville Duguid · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 16

"fasgnadh" aka "Che Guava" wrote:

> What's more, his concern that students are taught
> Themes, such as Australians at War , and issues,
> such as Anzac Day, bring those dates ALIVE for young
> students.

But when discussion with some of those students reveal they don't know
who came first, Kaiser Bill or Atilla the Hun, or whether the Galippoli
campaign was fought during World War I or II, you start to realize what
the PM is talking about.

Rev Head · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:55:11 +1100, fasgnadh
wrote:

>Rev Head wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:50:13 +1100, fasgnadh
>> wrote:
>>
>>>The Prime Minister's push to overhaul the teaching of history,
>>>is making him look silly as the Commonwealth is already
>>>spending millions of dollars to teach what he's complaining
>>>is not taught! B^D
>>
>> 1. Great man John Howard and great idea he has.
>>
>No one expects anything from you other than tugging
>the forelock and arse-licking the arse licker..
>
>So .. what's this great idea he has?

Australians should learn their history.

I mean - here you are saying your el Capitano of the True Blue
movement, putting to one side for a moment just how real all that is,
but here you say that and yet you knock a bloke who says Australians
should learn their history !!!

>Why do you have such an obsession for STYLE, over substance,
>apart from the fact that you think it makes it easier for you
>to conceal what a fraud you are? B^)
>
>Run along now, people who are actually ABLE TO DISCUSS
>Australian culture are doing so, and you are just
>stealing their air. B^)

You fool no one. You have been a pest to all that post into this forum
for what others say is years. Now you seem to be saying you don't like
the experience of that yourself.

Then what motivates you to act that way?

>>>"Australia Day: PM wants new history"
>>> - The Herald Sun 26/1/2006
>>>
>>> In 1984 they rewrote New History every day!
>>>
>>> Howard is always trying to rewrite history to
>>> suit his White Eyepatch view, but this latest
>>> outburst show he is either out of touch or
>>> is doing a little of the Dog Whistling he is
>>> famous for;
>>>
>>>
>>>"Mr Howard condemned teachers yesterday for focusing
>>>on abstract themes at the expense of the timeline of
>>>history.
>>>
>>>"Too often, it is taught without any sense of structured
>>>narrative, replaced by a fragmented stew of themes
>>>and issues," he said.
>>>...
>>>
>>>Mr Howard said it was ridiculous to think history could
>>>be taught without students knowing when the Battle of
>>>Hastings was fought (1066) or when Captain Cook arrived
>>>in Australia (1770)."
>>>
>>> The PM's emphassis on Date's and Timelines seems odd,
>>> as these certainly are taught already.. has he had a look
>>> at the VCE History Exam? B^p
>>>
>>> BTW: The Battle of Hastings is ENGLISH History, not Australian
>>> History! BD
>>>
>>> What's more, his concern that students are taught
>>> Themes, such as Australians at War , and issues,
>>> such as Anzac Day, bring those dates ALIVE for young
>>> students.
>>>
>>>
>>>"Kate Cameron, the immediate past national president of the History
>>>Teachers' Association, says Mr Howard of all people should know the
>>>Commonwealth has invested millions of dollars into the teaching of history.
>>>
>>>She says the prime minister will soon realise his claims that young
>>>people do not have a full understanding of Australian history are unfounded.
>>>
>>>"Well, I don't know what he would base that assertion upon - he just
>>>said it was obvious to him but he didn't explain what his sources were
>>>about how obvious it was," Ms Cameron told ABC Radio.
>>>
>>>"I think he's going to be extremely embarrassed when he realises that
>>>his own government has poured millions of dollars into providing
>>>wonderful teaching resources and professional development opportunities
>>>... to promote the teaching of Australian history."
>>>
>>>
>>> Whats more, it is through looking at Gallipoli, and Kokoda
>>> that Australian Values such as mateship and self sacrifice
>>> are explored!
>>>
>>> The PM is also contradicting himself because elsewhere he claims
>>> teaching those values IS important.. (Is he getting Past It?)! B^p
>>>
>>>"At the National Press Club in Canberra today, John Howard talked about
>>>the balance between maintaining Australian values, and allowing sections
>>>of the community to express their culture and beliefs."
>>>
>>> So how do we teach what those Australian values are unless
>>> we teach the about Simpson, and the Anzac tradition,
>>> themes of Mateship and loyalty.. rather than the Date
>>> which King Fauntleroy ascended to the British throne!?
>>> (After all, they are all pretenders after the French
>>> Bastard ascended the throne! B^0
>>>
>>>
>>> It also sounds as if The PM wants to teach beliefs, HIS beliefs,
>>> rather than teaching facts and letting students decide for
>>> themselves what they believe in.... he sounds more like a
>>> Cardinal discussin RE classes, or a Mullah in a Madrassa,
>>> than the PM of a secular education system;
>>>
>>>"We should have faith in what we have achieved and what we have become,"
>>>he said.
>>>
>>>"The Howard vision for teaching would cover
>>>indigenous history, the influence of the West
>>>and the stories of nations who fed European settlement."
>>>
>>> But thats simply a strategy for excluding some immigrants
>>> in favour of the PM's ethnic group!
>>>
>>> His prescription, Dates and Timelines, would mean NOTHING
>>> would be taught in the proposed 'indigenous history' other
>>> than some distant arrival date and White Settlement.
>>>
>>> Indigenous history is not about dates and timelines, so his
>>> call to have more of 1066 and All That, and effectively
>>> abolish indigenous history about events, values and meaning.
>>>
>>> And 'the stories of Nations who fed European settlement'
>>> means your kids learn about Serbs and Croats, but not
>>> about the Chinese who arrived much earlier, or the Vietnamese,
>>> whose story is interwoven with our own! B^p
>>>
>>> As usual, it appears as if he has his usual agenda, and what
>>> a cheap ploy to fire his shots in the Culture Wars on Australia
>>> Day! B^p
>>>
>>> The ALP simply pointed out the Federal governments role in
>>> educating History teachers "after an inquiry five years
>>> ago identified the need to improve preparation of university
>>> history teachers."
>>>
>>>"More than five years later John Howard is speaking about the same
>>>problems," Ms Macklin said. "If he is so concerned about history
>>>teaching he should ask (former education minister) Brendan Nelson what
>>>he has been doing."
>>>
>>> State Education ministers just seem puzzled what the PM was
>>> raving about, as Dates, timelines and Chronology are the
>>> essence of history traching.. but so is understanding what the
>>> events MEANT, and how values developed!
>>>
>>>"Australia's evolution as a nation and its development is
>>>a critical part of the curriculum taught in Victorian schools,"
>>>
>>>
>>>Howard, stuck in the 1950's is out of touch and out of DATE! B^)
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>>"There should be a fundamental distinction between
>>>multicultural and Multiculturalism.
>>>
>>>A society is multicultural if it has more than one ethnic enclave of people living
>>>living completely seperate from the rest of the community.
>>>
>>>'Multicultural - A society which embraces a number
>>>of minority cultures' - Macquarie Dictionary
>>>
>>>Multiculturalism is two things, the -ISM indicates that it
>>>is a set of beliefs or ideas about multiculture,
>>>ie a recognition of multicultural REALITY, an acceptance of it,
>>>a celebration of it.
>>>But it is ALSO a set of government policies to
>>>formalize that recognition, and allow ethnic enclaves to disallow members
>>>of their community from mixing with other ethnic groups.!"
>>>
>>> - fasgnadh
>>>
>>>
>>>"When Fasnag talks multiculturalism -> people living in Australia can
>>>live in seperate enclaves and use law to force community members rights
>>>not to mix
>>>When I talk multiculturalism -> the destructive formal policy at a governmental
>>>level"
>>>
>>> - Rev. Headjob,
>>> demonstrating my confusion.
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
>>>
>>>------------
>>>
>>>The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;
>>>
>>> http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html
>>>
>>>
>>>The true-blue Homestead;
>>>
>>> http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/
>>>
>>>
>>>The true-blue Hall Of Fame;
>>>
>>> http://www.geocities.com/trueblue_hall_of_fame/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>>The Tuckerbox;
>>>
>>> http://www.geocities.com/true_blue_tucker_box/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>>-----------
>>
>>
>"There should be a fundamental distinction between
>multicultural and Multiculturalism.
>
>A society is multicultural if it has more than one ethnic enclave of people living
>living completely seperate from the rest of the community.
>
>'Multicultural - A society which embraces a number
>of minority cultures' - Macquarie Dictionary
>
>Multiculturalism is two things, the -ISM indicates that it
>is a set of beliefs or ideas about multiculture,
>ie a recognition of multicultural REALITY, an acceptance of it,
>a celebration of it.
>But it is ALSO a set of government policies to
>formalize that recognition, and allow ethnic enclaves to disallow members
>of their community from mixing with other ethnic groups.!"
>
> - fasgnadh
>
>
>"When Fasnag talks multiculturalism -> people living in Australia can
>live in seperate enclaves and use law to force community members rights
>not to mix
>When I talk multiculturalism -> the destructive formal policy at a governmental
>level"
>
> - Rev. Headjob,
> demonstrating my confusion.
> Message-ID:
>
>
>------------
>
>The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;
>
> http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html
>
>
>The true-blue Homestead;
>
> http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/
>
>
>The true-blue Hall Of Fame;
>
> http://www.geocities.com/trueblue_hall_of_fame/index.html
>
>
>The Tuckerbox;
>
> http://www.geocities.com/true_blue_tucker_box/index.html
>
>
>-----------

Swampfox · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 9

"Don H" wrote in message $V7.209320@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> "fasgnadh" wrote in message
> $0$23753$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>
>>
>>
>> The Prime Minister's push to overhaul the teaching of history,
>> is making him look silly as the Commonwealth is already
>> spending millions of dollars to teach what he's complaining
>> is not taught! B^D
>>
>>
>> "Australia Day: PM wants new history"
>> - The Herald Sun 26/1/2006
>>
>> In 1984 they rewrote New History every day!
>>
>> Howard is always trying to rewrite history to
>> suit his White Eyepatch view, but this latest
>> outburst show he is either out of touch or
>> is doing a little of the Dog Whistling he is
>> famous for;
>>
>>
>> "Mr Howard condemned teachers yesterday for focusing
>> on abstract themes at the expense of the timeline of
>> history.
>>
>> "Too often, it is taught without any sense of structured
>> narrative, replaced by a fragmented stew of themes
>> and issues," he said.
>> ...
>>
>> Mr Howard said it was ridiculous to think history could
>> be taught without students knowing when the Battle of
>> Hastings was fought (1066) or when Captain Cook arrived
>> in Australia (1770)."
>>
>> The PM's emphassis on Date's and Timelines seems odd,
>> as these certainly are taught already.. has he had a look
>> at the VCE History Exam? B^p
>>
>> BTW: The Battle of Hastings is ENGLISH History, not Australian
>> History! BD
>>
>> What's more, his concern that students are taught
>> Themes, such as Australians at War , and issues,
>> such as Anzac Day, bring those dates ALIVE for young
>> students.
>>
>>
>> "Kate Cameron, the immediate past national president of the History
>> Teachers' Association, says Mr Howard of all people should know the
>> Commonwealth has invested millions of dollars into the teaching of
> history.
>>
>> She says the prime minister will soon realise his claims that young
>> people do not have a full understanding of Australian history are
> unfounded.
>>
>> "Well, I don't know what he would base that assertion upon - he just
>> said it was obvious to him but he didn't explain what his sources were
>> about how obvious it was," Ms Cameron told ABC Radio.
>>
>> "I think he's going to be extremely embarrassed when he realises that
>> his own government has poured millions of dollars into providing
>> wonderful teaching resources and professional development opportunities
>> ... to promote the teaching of Australian history."
>>
>>
>> Whats more, it is through looking at Gallipoli, and Kokoda
>> that Australian Values such as mateship and self sacrifice
>> are explored!
>>
>> The PM is also contradicting himself because elsewhere he claims
>> teaching those values IS important.. (Is he getting Past It?)! B^p
>>
>> "At the National Press Club in Canberra today, John Howard talked about
>> the balance between maintaining Australian values, and allowing sections
>> of the community to express their culture and beliefs."
>>
>> So how do we teach what those Australian values are unless
>> we teach the about Simpson, and the Anzac tradition,
>> themes of Mateship and loyalty.. rather than the Date
>> which King Fauntleroy ascended to the British throne!?
>> (After all, they are all pretenders after the French
>> Bastard ascended the throne! B^0
>>
>>
>> It also sounds as if The PM wants to teach beliefs, HIS beliefs,
>> rather than teaching facts and letting students decide for
>> themselves what they believe in.... he sounds more like a
>> Cardinal discussin RE classes, or a Mullah in a Madrassa,
>> than the PM of a secular education system;
>>
>> "We should have faith in what we have achieved and what we have become,"
>> he said.
>>
>> "The Howard vision for teaching would cover
>> indigenous history, the influence of the West
>> and the stories of nations who fed European settlement."
>>
>> But thats simply a strategy for excluding some immigrants
>> in favour of the PM's ethnic group!
>>
>> His prescription, Dates and Timelines, would mean NOTHING
>> would be taught in the proposed 'indigenous history' other
>> than some distant arrival date and White Settlement.
>>
>> Indigenous history is not about dates and timelines, so his
>> call to have more of 1066 and All That, and effectively
>> abolish indigenous history about events, values and meaning.
>>
>> And 'the stories of Nations who fed European settlement'
>> means your kids learn about Serbs and Croats, but not
>> about the Chinese who arrived much earlier, or the Vietnamese,
>> whose story is interwoven with our own! B^p
>>
>> As usual, it appears as if he has his usual agenda, and what
>> a cheap ploy to fire his shots in the Culture Wars on Australia
>> Day! B^p
>>
>> The ALP simply pointed out the Federal governments role in
>> educating History teachers "after an inquiry five years
>> ago identified the need to improve preparation of university
>> history teachers."
>>
>> "More than five years later John Howard is speaking about the same
>> problems," Ms Macklin said. "If he is so concerned about history
>> teaching he should ask (former education minister) Brendan Nelson what
>> he has been doing."
>>
>> State Education ministers just seem puzzled what the PM was
>> raving about, as Dates, timelines and Chronology are the
>> essence of history traching.. but so is understanding what the
>> events MEANT, and how values developed!
>>
>> "Australia's evolution as a nation and its development is
>> a critical part of the curriculum taught in Victorian schools,"
>>
>>
>> Howard, stuck in the 1950's is out of touch and out of DATE! B^)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> "There is a fundamental distinction between
>> multicultural and Multiculturalism, which racists
>> constantly and deliberately confuse.
>>
>> A society is multicultural if it has more than one
>> culture being practised within that society.
>>
>> 'Multicultural - A society which embraces a number
>> of minority cultures' - Macquarie Dictionary
>>
>> Multiculturalism is two things, the -ISM indicates that it
>> is a set of beliefs or ideas about multiculture,
>> ie a recognition of multicultural REALITY, an acceptance of it,
>> a celebration of it.
>> But it is ALSO a set of government policies to
>> formalize that recognition, acceptance and celebration!
>> Thus the Howard government has a Department which documents
>> the positive economic social and foreign policy benefits from
>> having a successful, open, democratic multicultural society."
>>
>> - fasgnadh
>>
>>
>> "When Fasnag talks multiculturalism -> people living in Australia have
>> come from different cultures, and live different lives that could be
>> categorised into groups if you chose to do so.
>>
>> When I talk multiculturalism -> the formal policy at a governmental
>> level"
>>
>> - Rev. Headjob, liar and thief
>> demonstrating the deliberate confusion.
>> Message-ID:
>>
>>
>> ------------
>>
>> The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;
>>
>> http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html
>>
>>
>> The true-blue Homestead;
>>
>> http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/
>>
>>
>> The true-blue Hall Of Fame;
>>
>> http://www.geocities.com/trueblue_hall_of_fame/index.html
>>
>>
>> The Tuckerbox;
>>
>> http://www.geocities.com/true_blue_tucker_box/index.html
>>
>>
>> -----------
> # Is history only a matter of opinion? or is it factual?
> There can be many selective or interpretative views of history, but only
> one
> set of facts actually match the events. It is the determining of what
> happened which can be a problem, but it is possible.
> The Objective view of History contrasts with the Subjective, which claims
> that all is subjective and relative. Did The Holocaust happen? There can
> only be one answer, according to the objective viewpoint - either it did,
> or
> it didn't.
> Then there is the Evaluation of History; which is not the same as being
> Subjective, but does involve such element. Having determined the Facts,
> what Value do we put on them? Was White Settlement of Australia a good or
> bad thing? This can be assessed in various ways - but the facts can be
> taught, while evaluation can be left to the individual to determine.
> Same with teaching Science, whose facts are more easily determined than
> History. True, scientists in the past had their view of empirical data
> coloured by their religious or other viewpoint, but this doesn't mean that
> the science itself is subjective or relative - though we must make
> allowance
> for historical context.
> Facts are facts, and we must face them. Let's clarify the issues
> involved. Words such as post-modernism, outcomes-based education, and
> culturally-determined, might sound impressive - but are they merely
> intellectual garbage?
> Thern there's Futurology, the most important science of the modern age.
> Is Global Warming occurring, and is it part of a natural cycle, or is it
> man-made? Again, facts are needed: meteorological data can determine if
> recent events are unique or part of a recurring pattern. Why should such
> pattern recur at a time when humans are at a peak of their technological
> and
> exploitative power? And how can we determine what is really natural -
> unless we first eliminate the Human Factor? Don't bother to try? Or wait
> until it may be too late to do so? Again what is Objective, as compared
> with Subjective, and how to distinguish one from the other?
>

But why did The Holocaust happen, what were it's effects, will it happen
again?
If the fact of it's existence is established beyond doubt then these
questions are the hardest to answer, and shouldn't be left to the individual
to evaluate, at least not if we want students to be informed and indeed
taught.
The interpretation and evaluation of historical events is best done by those
with a detailed knowledge and background in the subject, ie, historians, and
while their asssessments will always be subjective we must of necessity rely
on their judgement to educate our students.
There has been a trend towards trivialising academics in recent times and
the now ubiquitous term PC has done little to further their cause but surely
these same academics that we seem ready to discount and deride are by far
the best qualified to educate and inform.

dechucka · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 9

wrote in message @4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:55:11 +1100, fasgnadh
> wrote:
>
>>Rev Head wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:50:13 +1100, fasgnadh
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>The Prime Minister's push to overhaul the teaching of history,
>>>>is making him look silly as the Commonwealth is already
>>>>spending millions of dollars to teach what he's complaining
>>>>is not taught! B^D
>>>
>>> 1. Great man John Howard and great idea he has.
>>>
>>No one expects anything from you other than tugging
>>the forelock and arse-licking the arse licker..
>>
>>So .. what's this great idea he has?
>
> Australians should learn their history.

They already do.

next

fasgnadh · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 13

Rev Head wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:55:11 +1100, fasgnadh
> wrote:
>
>
>>Rev Head wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:50:13 +1100, fasgnadh
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The Prime Minister's push to overhaul the teaching of history,
>>>>is making him look silly as the Commonwealth is already
>>>>spending millions of dollars to teach what he's complaining
>>>>is not taught! B^D
>>>
>>>1. Great man John Howard and great idea he has.
>>>
>>
>>No one expects anything from you other than tugging
>>the forelock and arse-licking the arse licker..
>>
>>So .. what's this great idea he has?
>
>
> Australians should learn their history.

They already do, you idiot! B^p

If you had been here any length of time,
instead of just stepping off the refugee boat
from Seth Afrikkka, Piet, you would have known that!

>
>>Why do you have such an obsession for STYLE, over substance,
>>apart from the fact that you think it makes it easier for you
>>to conceal what a fraud you are? B^)
>>
>>Run along now, people who are actually ABLE TO DISCUSS
>>Australian culture are doing so, and you are just
>>stealing their air. B^)
>
>
> You fool no one.

That's because I'm not trying to.

You on the other hand are exposed as a fraud, thinking
you could BIGNOTE yourself by pretending a Bunyip
Aristocracy Pedigee! IT was obvious you were lying
when you couldn't point ot a passenger name on a
ships manifest, or talk in any meaningful way about
true blue ("True Bluism"? WTF was that about! B^)
and no one was impressed by your pretend pedigree anyway!

Aussies judge a man by his actions, not his bloody bloodline!

If you had been here any length of time,
instead of just stepping off the refugee boat
from Seth Afrikkka, Piet, you would have known that!

>
> Then what motivates you to act that way?
>
>
>>>>"Australia Day: PM wants new history"
>>>> - The Herald Sun 26/1/2006
>>>>
>>>> In 1984 they rewrote New History every day!
>>>>
>>>> Howard is always trying to rewrite history to
>>>> suit his White Eyepatch view, but this latest
>>>> outburst show he is either out of touch or
>>>> is doing a little of the Dog Whistling he is
>>>> famous for;
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Mr Howard condemned teachers yesterday for focusing
>>>>on abstract themes at the expense of the timeline of
>>>>history.
>>>>
>>>>"Too often, it is taught without any sense of structured
>>>>narrative, replaced by a fragmented stew of themes
>>>>and issues," he said.
>>>>...
>>>>
>>>>Mr Howard said it was ridiculous to think history could
>>>>be taught without students knowing when the Battle of
>>>>Hastings was fought (1066) or when Captain Cook arrived
>>>>in Australia (1770)."
>>>>
>>>> The PM's emphassis on Date's and Timelines seems odd,
>>>> as these certainly are taught already.. has he had a look
>>>> at the VCE History Exam? B^p
>>>>
>>>> BTW: The Battle of Hastings is ENGLISH History, not Australian
>>>> History! BD
>>>>
>>>> What's more, his concern that students are taught
>>>> Themes, such as Australians at War , and issues,
>>>> such as Anzac Day, bring those dates ALIVE for young
>>>> students.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Kate Cameron, the immediate past national president of the History
>>>>Teachers' Association, says Mr Howard of all people should know the
>>>>Commonwealth has invested millions of dollars into the teaching of history.
>>>>
>>>>She says the prime minister will soon realise his claims that young
>>>>people do not have a full understanding of Australian history are unfounded.
>>>>
>>>>"Well, I don't know what he would base that assertion upon - he just
>>>>said it was obvious to him but he didn't explain what his sources were
>>>>about how obvious it was," Ms Cameron told ABC Radio.
>>>>
>>>>"I think he's going to be extremely embarrassed when he realises that
>>>>his own government has poured millions of dollars into providing
>>>>wonderful teaching resources and professional development opportunities
>>>>... to promote the teaching of Australian history."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Whats more, it is through looking at Gallipoli, and Kokoda
>>>> that Australian Values such as mateship and self sacrifice
>>>> are explored!
>>>>
>>>> The PM is also contradicting himself because elsewhere he claims
>>>> teaching those values IS important.. (Is he getting Past It?)! B^p
>>>>
>>>>"At the National Press Club in Canberra today, John Howard talked about
>>>>the balance between maintaining Australian values, and allowing sections
>>>>of the community to express their culture and beliefs."
>>>>
>>>> So how do we teach what those Australian values are unless
>>>> we teach the about Simpson, and the Anzac tradition,
>>>> themes of Mateship and loyalty.. rather than the Date
>>>> which King Fauntleroy ascended to the British throne!?
>>>> (After all, they are all pretenders after the French
>>>> Bastard ascended the throne! B^0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It also sounds as if The PM wants to teach beliefs, HIS beliefs,
>>>> rather than teaching facts and letting students decide for
>>>> themselves what they believe in.... he sounds more like a
>>>> Cardinal discussin RE classes, or a Mullah in a Madrassa,
>>>> than the PM of a secular education system;
>>>>
>>>>"We should have faith in what we have achieved and what we have become,"
>>>>he said.
>>>>
>>>>"The Howard vision for teaching would cover
>>>>indigenous history, the influence of the West
>>>>and the stories of nations who fed European settlement."
>>>>
>>>> But thats simply a strategy for excluding some immigrants
>>>> in favour of the PM's ethnic group!
>>>>
>>>> His prescription, Dates and Timelines, would mean NOTHING
>>>> would be taught in the proposed 'indigenous history' other
>>>> than some distant arrival date and White Settlement.
>>>>
>>>> Indigenous history is not about dates and timelines, so his
>>>> call to have more of 1066 and All That, and effectively
>>>> abolish indigenous history about events, values and meaning.
>>>>
>>>> And 'the stories of Nations who fed European settlement'
>>>> means your kids learn about Serbs and Croats, but not
>>>> about the Chinese who arrived much earlier, or the Vietnamese,
>>>> whose story is interwoven with our own! B^p
>>>>
>>>> As usual, it appears as if he has his usual agenda, and what
>>>> a cheap ploy to fire his shots in the Culture Wars on Australia
>>>> Day! B^p
>>>>
>>>> The ALP simply pointed out the Federal governments role in
>>>> educating History teachers "after an inquiry five years
>>>> ago identified the need to improve preparation of university
>>>> history teachers."
>>>>
>>>>"More than five years later John Howard is speaking about the same
>>>>problems," Ms Macklin said. "If he is so concerned about history
>>>>teaching he should ask (former education minister) Brendan Nelson what
>>>>he has been doing."
>>>>
>>>> State Education ministers just seem puzzled what the PM was
>>>> raving about, as Dates, timelines and Chronology are the
>>>> essence of history traching.. but so is understanding what the
>>>> events MEANT, and how values developed!
>>>>
>>>>"Australia's evolution as a nation and its development is
>>>>a critical part of the curriculum taught in Victorian schools,"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Howard, stuck in the 1950's is out of touch and out of DATE! B^)
>>>>

--

"There is a fundamental distinction between
multicultural and Multiculturalism, which racists
constantly and deliberately confuse.

A society is multicultural if it has more than one
culture being practised within that society.

'Multicultural - A society which embraces a number
of minority cultures' - Macquarie Dictionary

Multiculturalism is two things, the -ISM indicates that it
is a set of beliefs or ideas about multiculture,
ie a recognition of multicultural REALITY, an acceptance of it,
a celebration of it.
But it is ALSO a set of government policies to
formalize that recognition, acceptance and celebration!
Thus the Howard government has a Department which documents
the positive economic social and foreign policy benefits from
having a successful, open, democratic multicultural society."

- fasgnadh

"When Fasnag talks multiculturalism -> people living in Australia have
come from different cultures, and live different lives that could be
categorised into groups if you chose to do so.

When I talk multiculturalism -> the formal policy at a governmental
level"

- Rev. Headjob, liar and thief
demonstrating the deliberate confusion.
Message-ID:

------------

The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html

The true-blue Homestead;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/

The true-blue Hall Of Fame;

http://www.geocities.com/trueblue_hall_of_fame/index.html

The Tuckerbox;

http://www.geocities.com/true_blue_tucker_box/index.html

-----------

jantan · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

The leader of the country is crabbing away and it is indeed very sad.
"Swampfox" wrote in message $0$18200$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> "Don H" wrote in message
> $V7.209320@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> "fasgnadh" wrote in message
>> $0$23753$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Prime Minister's push to overhaul the teaching of history,
>>> is making him look silly as the Commonwealth is already
>>> spending millions of dollars to teach what he's complaining
>>> is not taught! B^D
>>>
>>>
>>> "Australia Day: PM wants new history"
>>> - The Herald Sun 26/1/2006
>>>
>>> In 1984 they rewrote New History every day!
>>>
>>> Howard is always trying to rewrite history to
>>> suit his White Eyepatch view, but this latest
>>> outburst show he is either out of touch or
>>> is doing a little of the Dog Whistling he is
>>> famous for;
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mr Howard condemned teachers yesterday for focusing
>>> on abstract themes at the expense of the timeline of
>>> history.
>>>
>>> "Too often, it is taught without any sense of structured
>>> narrative, replaced by a fragmented stew of themes
>>> and issues," he said.
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Mr Howard said it was ridiculous to think history could
>>> be taught without students knowing when the Battle of
>>> Hastings was fought (1066) or when Captain Cook arrived
>>> in Australia (1770)."
>>>
>>> The PM's emphassis on Date's and Timelines seems odd,
>>> as these certainly are taught already.. has he had a look
>>> at the VCE History Exam? B^p
>>>
>>> BTW: The Battle of Hastings is ENGLISH History, not Australian
>>> History! BD
>>>
>>> What's more, his concern that students are taught
>>> Themes, such as Australians at War , and issues,
>>> such as Anzac Day, bring those dates ALIVE for young
>>> students.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Kate Cameron, the immediate past national president of the History
>>> Teachers' Association, says Mr Howard of all people should know the
>>> Commonwealth has invested millions of dollars into the teaching of
>> history.
>>>
>>> She says the prime minister will soon realise his claims that young
>>> people do not have a full understanding of Australian history are
>> unfounded.
>>>
>>> "Well, I don't know what he would base that assertion upon - he just
>>> said it was obvious to him but he didn't explain what his sources were
>>> about how obvious it was," Ms Cameron told ABC Radio.
>>>
>>> "I think he's going to be extremely embarrassed when he realises that
>>> his own government has poured millions of dollars into providing
>>> wonderful teaching resources and professional development opportunities
>>> ... to promote the teaching of Australian history."
>>>
>>>
>>> Whats more, it is through looking at Gallipoli, and Kokoda
>>> that Australian Values such as mateship and self sacrifice
>>> are explored!
>>>
>>> The PM is also contradicting himself because elsewhere he claims
>>> teaching those values IS important.. (Is he getting Past It?)! B^p
>>>
>>> "At the National Press Club in Canberra today, John Howard talked about
>>> the balance between maintaining Australian values, and allowing sections
>>> of the community to express their culture and beliefs."
>>>
>>> So how do we teach what those Australian values are unless
>>> we teach the about Simpson, and the Anzac tradition,
>>> themes of Mateship and loyalty.. rather than the Date
>>> which King Fauntleroy ascended to the British throne!?
>>> (After all, they are all pretenders after the French
>>> Bastard ascended the throne! B^0
>>>
>>>
>>> It also sounds as if The PM wants to teach beliefs, HIS beliefs,
>>> rather than teaching facts and letting students decide for
>>> themselves what they believe in.... he sounds more like a
>>> Cardinal discussin RE classes, or a Mullah in a Madrassa,
>>> than the PM of a secular education system;
>>>
>>> "We should have faith in what we have achieved and what we have become,"
>>> he said.
>>>
>>> "The Howard vision for teaching would cover
>>> indigenous history, the influence of the West
>>> and the stories of nations who fed European settlement."
>>>
>>> But thats simply a strategy for excluding some immigrants
>>> in favour of the PM's ethnic group!
>>>
>>> His prescription, Dates and Timelines, would mean NOTHING
>>> would be taught in the proposed 'indigenous history' other
>>> than some distant arrival date and White Settlement.
>>>
>>> Indigenous history is not about dates and timelines, so his
>>> call to have more of 1066 and All That, and effectively
>>> abolish indigenous history about events, values and meaning.
>>>
>>> And 'the stories of Nations who fed European settlement'
>>> means your kids learn about Serbs and Croats, but not
>>> about the Chinese who arrived much earlier, or the Vietnamese,
>>> whose story is interwoven with our own! B^p
>>>
>>> As usual, it appears as if he has his usual agenda, and what
>>> a cheap ploy to fire his shots in the Culture Wars on Australia
>>> Day! B^p
>>>
>>> The ALP simply pointed out the Federal governments role in
>>> educating History teachers "after an inquiry five years
>>> ago identified the need to improve preparation of university
>>> history teachers."
>>>
>>> "More than five years later John Howard is speaking about the same
>>> problems," Ms Macklin said. "If he is so concerned about history
>>> teaching he should ask (former education minister) Brendan Nelson what
>>> he has been doing."
>>>
>>> State Education ministers just seem puzzled what the PM was
>>> raving about, as Dates, timelines and Chronology are the
>>> essence of history traching.. but so is understanding what the
>>> events MEANT, and how values developed!
>>>
>>> "Australia's evolution as a nation and its development is
>>> a critical part of the curriculum taught in Victorian schools,"
>>>
>>>
>>> Howard, stuck in the 1950's is out of touch and out of DATE! B^)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> "There is a fundamental distinction between
>>> multicultural and Multiculturalism, which racists
>>> constantly and deliberately confuse.
>>>
>>> A society is multicultural if it has more than one
>>> culture being practised within that society.
>>>
>>> 'Multicultural - A society which embraces a number
>>> of minority cultures' - Macquarie Dictionary
>>>
>>> Multiculturalism is two things, the -ISM indicates that it
>>> is a set of beliefs or ideas about multiculture,
>>> ie a recognition of multicultural REALITY, an acceptance of it,
>>> a celebration of it.
>>> But it is ALSO a set of government policies to
>>> formalize that recognition, acceptance and celebration!
>>> Thus the Howard government has a Department which documents
>>> the positive economic social and foreign policy benefits from
>>> having a successful, open, democratic multicultural society."
>>>
>>> - fasgnadh
>>>
>>>
>>> "When Fasnag talks multiculturalism -> people living in Australia have
>>> come from different cultures, and live different lives that could be
>>> categorised into groups if you chose to do so.
>>>
>>> When I talk multiculturalism -> the formal policy at a governmental
>>> level"
>>>
>>> - Rev. Headjob, liar and thief
>>> demonstrating the deliberate confusion.
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------
>>>
>>> The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;
>>>
>>> http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html
>>>
>>>
>>> The true-blue Homestead;
>>>
>>> http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/
>>>
>>>
>>> The true-blue Hall Of Fame;
>>>
>>> http://www.geocities.com/trueblue_hall_of_fame/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>> The Tuckerbox;
>>>
>>> http://www.geocities.com/true_blue_tucker_box/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>> -----------
>> # Is history only a matter of opinion? or is it factual?
>> There can be many selective or interpretative views of history, but only
>> one
>> set of facts actually match the events. It is the determining of what
>> happened which can be a problem, but it is possible.
>> The Objective view of History contrasts with the Subjective, which
>> claims
>> that all is subjective and relative. Did The Holocaust happen? There
>> can
>> only be one answer, according to the objective viewpoint - either it did,
>> or
>> it didn't.
>> Then there is the Evaluation of History; which is not the same as being
>> Subjective, but does involve such element. Having determined the Facts,
>> what Value do we put on them? Was White Settlement of Australia a good
>> or
>> bad thing? This can be assessed in various ways - but the facts can be
>> taught, while evaluation can be left to the individual to determine.
>> Same with teaching Science, whose facts are more easily determined than
>> History. True, scientists in the past had their view of empirical data
>> coloured by their religious or other viewpoint, but this doesn't mean
>> that
>> the science itself is subjective or relative - though we must make
>> allowance
>> for historical context.
>> Facts are facts, and we must face them. Let's clarify the issues
>> involved. Words such as post-modernism, outcomes-based education, and
>> culturally-determined, might sound impressive - but are they merely
>> intellectual garbage?
>> Thern there's Futurology, the most important science of the modern age.
>> Is Global Warming occurring, and is it part of a natural cycle, or is it
>> man-made? Again, facts are needed: meteorological data can determine if
>> recent events are unique or part of a recurring pattern. Why should such
>> pattern recur at a time when humans are at a peak of their technological
>> and
>> exploitative power? And how can we determine what is really natural -
>> unless we first eliminate the Human Factor? Don't bother to try? Or
>> wait
>> until it may be too late to do so? Again what is Objective, as compared
>> with Subjective, and how to distinguish one from the other?
>>
>
> But why did The Holocaust happen, what were it's effects, will it happen
> again?
> If the fact of it's existence is established beyond doubt then these
> questions are the hardest to answer, and shouldn't be left to the
> individual to evaluate, at least not if we want students to be informed
> and indeed taught.
> The interpretation and evaluation of historical events is best done by
> those with a detailed knowledge and background in the subject, ie,
> historians, and while their asssessments will always be subjective we must
> of necessity rely on their judgement to educate our students.
> There has been a trend towards trivialising academics in recent times and
> the now ubiquitous term PC has done little to further their cause but
> surely these same academics that we seem ready to discount and deride are
> by far the best qualified to educate and inform.
>

dechucka · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 9

"Neville Duguid" wrote in message %nevilled@bigpond.net.au...
> "fasgnadh" aka "Che Guava" wrote:
>
>> What's more, his concern that students are taught
>> Themes, such as Australians at War , and issues,
>> such as Anzac Day, bring those dates ALIVE for young
>> students.
>
> But when discussion with some of those students reveal they don't know
> who came first, Kaiser Bill or Atilla the Hun, or whether the Galippoli
> campaign was fought during World War I or II, you start to realize what
> the PM is talking about.

you realise there are some kids in this country who don't listen to their
teachers who are teaching Australian history. Australian history is taught a
lot more today than it was in the 50's. For heavens sake look at the
curriculum. If you go down to your local school and you will find the
Australian flag ( the one handed out by a newspaper as a headscarf ) flown
and the National Anthem sung.

Rev Head · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:23:24 +1100, "dechucka"
wrote:

>
> wrote in message
>@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:55:11 +1100, fasgnadh
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Rev Head wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:50:13 +1100, fasgnadh
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The Prime Minister's push to overhaul the teaching of history,
>>>>>is making him look silly as the Commonwealth is already
>>>>>spending millions of dollars to teach what he's complaining
>>>>>is not taught! B^D
>>>>
>>>> 1. Great man John Howard and great idea he has.
>>>>
>>>No one expects anything from you other than tugging
>>>the forelock and arse-licking the arse licker..
>>>
>>>So .. what's this great idea he has?
>>
>> Australians should learn their history.
>
>They already do.
>
>next

Three words. Good stuff.

This Fasnag character on the other hand is at no risk of being labled
brief!

Madman, Young Vincent, Dillusional Obsessive maybe - but not Brief!

Rev Head · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:35:51 +1100, fasgnadh
wrote:

>Aussies judge a man by his actions, not his bloody bloodline!

As if you'