Dr Rodney Blackhirst, La Trobe University, Bendigo, Australi

KENADIAN · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 2

http://www.geocities.com/kenadian2003/sold_his_soul.htm

Dr Rodney Blackhirst, La Trobe University, Bendigo,
Australia.

Dr Blackhirst lectures in Philosophy & Religious
Studies,specializing in the monotheisms: Biblical
Studies, Medieval Studies and Islam/West relations.

=

Dr R. Blackhirst:
denied and falsified the old and the new testaments
-
as well, 'sold his soul' for a mere '30 pieces of
silver'

1998-1999 - Dr R. Blackhirst: spoke exclusively in
defenseof the 'pre-islamic' gospel of barnabas.

but all that changed

however, matthew 26:38, matthew 26:41, luke 22:41-44,
john 17:11-14; galatians 4:22-25; and the book of
hebrews also lends more credence to the gospel of
barnabas AND ISLAM

jesus:
'The kingdom of God shall be taken from you,'
&
'the children of the kingdom shall be cast out'

Matthew 21:42 (KJV) Jesus saith unto them, Did ye
never read in the scriptures, The stone which the
builders rejected, the same is become the head of the
corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous
in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you,
The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given
to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Matthew 8:11 (KJV) And I say unto you, That many shall
come fromthe east and west, and shall sit down with
Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of
eaven.12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast
out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and
gnashing of teeth.

Luke 13:28 (KJV) There shall be weeping and gnashing
of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and
Jacob, and all the prophets, in thekingdom of God, and
you [yourselves] thrust out.

Archived from group: alt>christian>religion

Qolon · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 21

I thought we adequately responded to your insinuations sometime ago.

- dolf

"KENADIAN" wrote in message$1x7.29182@nntp-post.primus.ca...
http://www.geocities.com/kenadian2003/sold-his-soul.htm

Dr Rodney Blackhirst, La Trobe University, Bendigo,
Australia.

Dr Blackhirst lectures in Philosophy & Religious
Studies,specializing in the monotheisms: Biblical
Studies, Medieval Studies and Islam/West relations.

QOLON NOTE:
Before making this response, I've read many of your political comments
and religious based impugnity as your posting history on newsgroups.

If there is some point or supporting reference which I have made in support
of my claims that you object to, then by all means point it out and give an
explanation rather than diatribe of deranged fanaticism.

As it is, the Arch-Angel Gabriel whom the Prophect Muhammed claims to have
received his visions from for many years, appears to be nothing more than a
Kabbalistic notion which is traditionally tied to the use of language (eg.
An occult lore derived from an amalgam of the Egyptian scribal god called
Toth or as the Arch-Angel Toth Tammuz or perhaps the Arch-Angel Seraphis;
Hence the innovative use of the Arabic Script within the Koran gives the
opportunity to simply put a new name to classical objects) as the means for
implementing Systems and Administration of Government [#51, #66, #77, #37 -
Non-Deeming Action/ Administration of Government].

From my reading of biblical associated history the prophet Muhammed didn't
create a new religion, but called people back from their idolatry, claiming
that both the Jews and Christians of the time had perverted the Bible's
teachings--BUT WHAT IS THAT RELIGION HE WAS CALLING THEM BACK TO? As you
can see from the Dead Sea Scroll narrative below, relating to the prophetic
testimony given of the Messiah of Aaron and Israel who is of the seed of
David and its relationship to Mosaic Laws, festival, Sabbath and Covenant,
that it creates a question as to whether the claims of Islam, as a
monotheistic religion are at all legitimate.

Furthermore in my past discussions with Islamic adherents, there is a
tendency for Arabs who are Muslim to make much of a genealogical dependency
on Hagar and Ishmael--Unless you are advocating an elitist heirarchial
culture of Imams by birth, who are sustained by myriads of subserviant
minions, it is a fallacy that the 12 sons of Ishmael as refugees:

#1 - Nabajoth {words; prophecies; buds} / Aleph,
#2 - Kedar {blackness; sorrow} / Beth,
#3 - Adbeel {vapor, or cloud of God} / Gimel,
#4 - Mibsam {smelling sweet} / Daleth,
#5 - Mishma {hearing; obeying} / He,
#6 - Dumah {? Silent; resemulance} / Vav,
#7 - Massa {a burden; prophecy} / Zayin,
#8 - Hadad {joy; noise; clamor}/ Heth,
#9 - Tema {admiration; perfection; consummation} / Teth,
#10 - Jetur {order; succession; mountainous} / Yod,
#11 - Naphish {the soul; he that rests, refreshes himself, or respires} /
Kaf,
#12 - Kedemah {oriental; ancient; first} / Lamed

Could displace the indigenous populations already within the region. It
seems to me that if one can use astrological practices together with the
metaphysical and Kabbalistic notion of Arch-Angels and Angels as the basis
for occult lore (eg. Gabriel as symbollic of an encyclical or linguistic
framework like Toth was the scribe to the Egyptians), that the use of these
genealogical names can simply be deployed as part of that existing
nomenclature.

You also seem to forget that Abraham, by western standards had three wives
and not two, if you count the concubine with whom he had more children than
either to Sarai or Hagar--By the same analogy, Keturah {that makes the
incense to fume} is the concubine from whom judgment is born {ie. Medan as
'judgment; process'; Midian as 'judgment; covering; habit'; Zimran as 'song;
singer; vine'; Jokshan as 'an offense; hardness; a knocking'; Ishbak as 'who
is empty or exhausted'; and Shuah as 'ditch; swimming; humiliation' (* not
in order)}.

Within my past discussions with Islamic adherents, there appears to be much
made of the geographic locality where many of the Biblical events took
place, and because these historical events took place in Arabic lands, that
somehow it imbues the present populations there with sanctity.

You also appear to make much of the Hagarism: "Which things are an allegory:
for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which
gendereth to bondage, which is Hagar. For this Hagar is mount Sinai in
Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her
children--But the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all."
[Galatians 4:24-26]

But such proof text reading of the Scriptures ignores that: "we, brethren,
as Isaac was, are children of promise. But, as he who was born according to
the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so
it is now. Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? 'Cast out the
bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with
the son of the free woman.' So then brethren, we are not children of the
bondwoman but of the free." [Galations 4:28-31]

It would seem to be utter nonsence to claim that the allegory concerning
Hagar as bondwoman somehow grants her and Muslims a Covenant prerogative
above that of Sarah as the freewoman and Hebrews who are genealogical
connected to her.

To use the example of when John Hyrcanus I burned the Samaritan temple on
Mount Gerizim in 128 BCE and later in 107 BCE he destroyed Shechem {part;
portion; back early in the morning} as the region is today known as Nablus
within the region of Palestine. As far as I can see, his military
incursions resulted in many Idumeans (ancestrally palestinian) also
converting to Judaism. It is not impossible to embraced idolatrous
practices in addition to having a pre-Babylonian exillic regard for the
first 5 books of the Hebrew scriptures--they thought nothing of placing the
pagan deity of Zeus within their temple. Samaria became the melting pot for
anyone who was regarded as an apostate from the stricter forms of Judaism.

The dialogue between the Samaritan woman and Jesus of Nazareth (whom you
believe to be not the Just One as Christ, but a mere prophet--a second
classed one at that!) ought to serve as a reminder that the physicality or
the Hagarisms of Isam as Kabbalistic astrological paganism with its all
encapsulating encyclic/linguistic architecture, conveys no truth to the
claim--We are the real Jews or that there is in anyway the possibility of a
pious anti-semite: "Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say,
that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. Jesus saith unto
her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this
mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not
what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour
cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in
spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a
Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called
Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her,
I that speak unto thee am he." [cf: John 4:20-26]

Finally you make the unfounded and domatic accusation: "you are willfully
qestioning and rejecting the lord god's omnipotence, omnipresence and
omniscience. you are also rejecting and belying your own bible + the god's
covenants and promises. you must be higher than god because you have had the
audacity to question his promise and divine plan for ishmael and hagar."

I raised the point in retort: "I'm simply refuting that King Darius I ['the
Great'] in circa 520BCE and King Artaxerxes I in circa 457BCE who claim to
pursue a monotheistic religion in the idolatrous and planetray worship of
the personage of Ahura Mazda { 'the wise lord'} worship as the main
principle of everything good, the wise creator spirit who revealed himself
in light and fire or Mithra {'contract of friendship'} is superior to the
Lord-YAHWEH God-'ELOHIYM of Israel {He that sees God; He that prevails with
God}."

I imagine that such a comment ought to create a clash of culture as I can't
find any scholarly or archeological discussion which describes exactly how
the Indo-Iranians transitioned into Islam from the Zoroastrian religion
which pervaded the region. And whether its regard for a pantheon of gods,
have simply been replaced by a nomenclature of Arch-Angels and Angels. And
whether therefore, Islam is something other than an attempt to amalgamate,
as Kabbalistic refinement, the Zoroastrian (c. 600 BCE) pathenon under the
personage of Ahura Mazda { 'the wise lord'} worship as the main principle of
everything good, the wise creator spirit who revealed himself in light and
fire or Mithra {'contract of friendship'}. And whether 'Allah' as the
Arabic word for God is any different to the Greek notion of God called
'Theos' which Muslims desperately seek to equate with Lord-YAHWEH
God-'ELOHIYM of Israel.

Ideally if Islam was truly a monotheistic religion with astrological
dependencies as paganism, it ought not to have had any contention with the
Zoroastrian belief as claimed monotheistic astrological paganism.

I look forward to an informed response from you!

- dolf
-

"Kenadian" wrote in message@posting.google.com...
navali: you are willfully qestioning and rejecting the lord god's
omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience.

you are also rejecting and belying your own bible + the god's
covenants and promises.

you must be higher than god because you have had the audacity to
question his promise and divine plan for ishmael and hagar.

like i said before you have NO knowledge or understanding of your own
bible save conjectures and false interpretations.

[snipped deranged babble]

1MAN4ALL · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 4

"Qolon" wrote in message news:
> QOLON NOTE:
> Before making this response, I've read many of your political comments
> and religious based impugnity as your posting history on newsgroups.
>
> If there is some point or supporting reference which I have made in support
> of my claims that you object to, then by all means point it out and give an
> explanation rather than diatribe of deranged fanaticism.
>
> As it is, the Arch-Angel Gabriel whom the Prophect Muhammed claims to have
> received his visions from for many years, appears to be nothing more than a
> Kabbalistic notion which is traditionally tied to the use of language (eg.
> An occult lore derived from an amalgam of the Egyptian scribal god called
> Toth or as the Arch-Angel Toth Tammuz or perhaps the Arch-Angel Seraphis;
> Hence the innovative use of the Arabic Script within the Koran gives the
> opportunity to simply put a new name to classical objects) as the means for
> implementing Systems and Administration of Government [#51, #66, #77, #37 -
> Non-Deeming Action/ Administration of Government].

First of all, I think you need to know the difference between
"Kabala," which is essentially Jewish mysticism, and Jewish Oral
Traditions, which, according to some Jews have precedence over written
traditions. If you do a little study, rather than insult the
intelligence of other people in this newsgroup, you will find out very
quickly that belief in archangel Gabriel is an intrinsic part of
Judaism as well Christianity, mentioned not only in the Book of Daniel
but also numerous times in Talmud.

Toth was an Egyptian god of wisdom, and I simply don't see how he
compares with Gabriel. Tammuz was the Assyrian/Babylonian god who dies
and rises again. People have compared him to Jesus, but I am not sure
why anybody would compare him to Gabriel. Serapis was a god of
fertility and of the dead, and, again, I don't see any connection.
Your last statement is so incoherent that I am wondering if you are on
drugs.

> From my reading of biblical associated history the prophet Muhammed didn't
> create a new religion, but called people back from their idolatry, claiming
> that both the Jews and Christians of the time had perverted the Bible's
> teachings--BUT WHAT IS THAT RELIGION HE WAS CALLING THEM BACK TO? As you
> can see from the Dead Sea Scroll narrative below, relating to the prophetic
> testimony given of the Messiah of Aaron and Israel who is of the seed of
> David and its relationship to Mosaic Laws, festival, Sabbath and Covenant,
> that it creates a question as to whether the claims of Islam, as a
> monotheistic religion are at all legitimate.

Again, very incoherent statement. Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) was calling
people to Islam_ to the tradition of monotheism which is as old as
mankind itself. He was not calling them to Christianity or Judaism.
Monotheism in Arabia predates even Abraham, the proof of which can be
found in the Bible itself i.e. Abraham meets Melchidedek, who was
called the priest of Most High. In other words, monotheism already
existed when Abraham arrived in Palestine.

> Furthermore in my past discussions with Islamic adherents, there is a
> tendency for Arabs who are Muslim to make much of a genealogical dependency
> on Hagar and Ishmael--Unless you are advocating an elitist heirarchial
> culture of Imams by birth, who are sustained by myriads of subserviant
> minions, it is a fallacy that the 12 sons of Ishmael as refugees:
>
> #1 - Nabajoth {words; prophecies; buds} / Aleph,
> #2 - Kedar {blackness; sorrow} / Beth,
> #3 - Adbeel {vapor, or cloud of God} / Gimel,
> #4 - Mibsam {smelling sweet} / Daleth,
> #5 - Mishma {hearing; obeying} / He,
> #6 - Dumah {? Silent; resemulance} / Vav,
> #7 - Massa {a burden; prophecy} / Zayin,
> #8 - Hadad {joy; noise; clamor}/ Heth,
> #9 - Tema {admiration; perfection; consummation} / Teth,
> #10 - Jetur {order; succession; mountainous} / Yod,
> #11 - Naphish {the soul; he that rests, refreshes himself, or respires} /
> Kaf,
> #12 - Kedemah {oriental; ancient; first} / Lamed

"Kedar" also means "mighty," and through him, Prophet Muhammad is
descended. But not all Arabs are children of Ishmael just as not all
Jews are descendants of Isaac.

> Could displace the indigenous populations already within the region. It
> seems to me that if one can use astrological practices together with the
> metaphysical and Kabbalistic notion of Arch-Angels and Angels as the basis
> for occult lore (eg. Gabriel as symbollic of an encyclical or linguistic
> framework like Toth was the scribe to the Egyptians), that the use of these
> genealogical names can simply be deployed as part of that existing
> nomenclature.

See above.

> You also seem to forget that Abraham, by western standards had three wives
> and not two, if you count the concubine with whom he had more children than
> either to Sarai or Hagar--By the same analogy, Keturah {that makes the
> incense to fume} is the concubine from whom judgment is born {ie. Medan as
> 'judgment; process'; Midian as 'judgment; covering; habit'; Zimran as 'song;
> singer; vine'; Jokshan as 'an offense; hardness; a knocking'; Ishbak as 'who
> is empty or exhausted'; and Shuah as 'ditch; swimming; humiliation' (* not
> in order)}.
>
> Within my past discussions with Islamic adherents, there appears to be much
> made of the geographic locality where many of the Biblical events took
> place, and because these historical events took place in Arabic lands, that
> somehow it imbues the present populations there with sanctity.
>
> You also appear to make much of the Hagarism: "Which things are an allegory:
> for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which
> gendereth to bondage, which is Hagar. For this Hagar is mount Sinai in
> Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her
> children--But the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all."
> [Galatians 4:24-26]
>
> But such proof text reading of the Scriptures ignores that: "we, brethren,
> as Isaac was, are children of promise. But, as he who was born according to
> the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so
> it is now. Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? 'Cast out the
> bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with
> the son of the free woman.' So then brethren, we are not children of the
> bondwoman but of the free." [Galations 4:28-31]
>
> It would seem to be utter nonsence to claim that the allegory concerning
> Hagar as bondwoman somehow grants her and Muslims a Covenant prerogative
> above that of Sarah as the freewoman and Hebrews who are genealogical
> connected to her.

It is also nonsense to assume that all Jews are descendants of Isaac.
However, I agree with you that those who use the analogy that Sara +
Isaac= Jews and Hagar + Ishmael= Muslims are making a terrible mistake
because many Jews have converted to Islam and not all Jews are
descendants of Isaac. Judaism and Islam are religions, not family
trees.

> Ideally if Islam was truly a monotheistic religion with astrological
> dependencies as paganism, it ought not to have had any contention with the
> Zoroastrian belief as claimed monotheistic astrological paganism.

Do you know what you are trying to write? Either you don't know
English or you are on drugs. So which is it?

Qolon · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 21

Firstly a comment on what constitutes a monotheistic religion. Ahura Mazda
whilst a eminent principle, doesn't constitute monotheism and an equivalence
to Lord-YAHWEH God-'ELOHIYM of Israel {He that sees God; He that prevails
with God} who is attributed by an autonomous and pre-eminent attribution of
nature, known as the Sabbath (Saturday) which is a deified or transcendent
principle or virtue as rationally a conception of, and co-participation
within an Everalsting Convenant with God-This deification of time differs
from that of the sixth day. In that one deals with the physicality of man
and the spirituality of man.

Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan expresses this view in his extrapolation of the
Kabbalistic notion of Angels and to which my 9(9²+1)/2 = #396 vMeme/Moment
mathematical, chronological, psychological, autonomous, isonomic and
taxonomical model
applies
as a paradigm for hosting belief systems. And that such a move into the
field of transcendental, metaphysical and chronological encyclical knowledge
architectures is from my perspective, bound to realise heretofore unrealised
quantum potential, in people, technology and intelligent values based
solutions: "With all little insight, the difference between the spiritual
and physical is readily apparent. In the physical realm, there is a concept
of physical space; while in the spiritual, this concept is totally absent.
All that exists in the spiritual realm is conceptual space. Two things that
are similar are said to be close, while things that are different are said
to be far from one another. While in the physical world it is possible two
push to different things together, this is impossible in the spiritual
realm.

We see a good example of this in the case of the teachings involving angels.
It is taught that one angel cannot have two missions, while two angels
cannot share the same mission. There's no special concept unifying an angel.
Therefore, if an angel had two missions, by definition it would become two
angels. On the other hand, if two angels had the same mission, there could
be no physical space separating them, and by definition they would be a
single angel.

We now begin to see why a physical world is needed. If only a spiritual
world existed, there would be no way in which two different things could be
brought together. Because they're different, by definition they're
separated, and there would be no physical space in which they could be
"pushed" together.

Spiritual entities, however, can be bound to physical objects, very much as
the soul is bound to the body. The only way, then, in which two different
spiritual entities or forces can be brought together is when they are bound
to the same physical thing, or to two physical things which themselves are
brought together." [Courtesy: Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan " Jerusalem: Eye of the
Universe", published by the Orthodox Union and obtained
from Project Genesis ].

I raised the previous point in retort: "I'm simply refuting that King Darius
I ['the Great'] in circa 520BCE and King Artaxerxes I in circa 457BCE who
claim to pursue a monotheistic religion in the idolatrous and planetray
worship of the personage of Ahura Mazda { 'the wise lord'} worship as the
main principle of everything good, the wise creator spirit who revealed
himself in light and fire or Mithra {'contract of friendship'} is superior
to the Lord-YAHWEH God-'ELOHIYM of Israel {He that sees God; He that
prevails with God}."

I note that it was western archeologist who interpreted some of the written
records as monumental inscriptions left by King Darius the Great and King
Artaxerxes. By contrast, despite the adoption of Arabic script as an
encyclical framework and system of governance and transform an analphabeic
populace, some of these historical sites have been desecrated and in some
instances the original works removed and an attempt made to replace them
with Arabic Script--Where does this differ from the Taliban's destruction of
statues of Buddha in Afghanistan?

I also said previously, that as you can see from the Dead Sea Scroll
narrative below, relating to the prophetic testimony given of the Messiah of
Aaron and Israel who is of the seed of David and its relationship to Mosaic
Laws, festival, Sabbath and Covenant, that it creates a question as to
whether the claims of Islam, as a
monotheistic religion are at all legitimate. You have failed to distinguish
between Allah as also an eminent principle, by making it distinct from a
transcendent notion such as Ahura Mazda and equivalent to YAHWEH.

That Jesus of Nazareth is the 'Just One, of whom you now have become
the betrayers and murderers,' [Acts 7:52] and who was "a Man attested by God
to the Men of Israel by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through
Him" [Acts 2:22] and in accordance with the "customs which Moses delivered
to Israel." [Acts 6:14] And "how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the
Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who
were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him" [Acts 10:38] is not
denied by me.

It is his Torah compliant teachings in recognition of the Sinai covenant of
Moses, in which you don't presently have a part, that continues to separate
you from the Hebrews and Jewish/Gentile Christians of the New Covenant {ie.
in which you engaged in denegation as denial and contradiction and
denigration meaning to sully, defame; to blacken}: "After this I will
return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down;
and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the
residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my
name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God
are all his works from the beginning of the world." [Acts 15:16-18]

"In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and
close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will
build it as in the days of old: That they may possess the remnant of Edom,
and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that
doeth this." [Amos 9:11-12]

"I will exile the tents of your king and the foundation of your images
beyond the tents of Damascus [Amos 5:27] The books of the Law are the tents
of the king, as it says, "I will re-erect the fallen tent of David' [Amos
9:11] The king is the the nation and the 'foundation of your
images' is the books of the prophets whose words Israel despise. The star is
the Interpreter of the Law who comes to Damascus, as it is written, 'A star
has left Jacob, a staff has risen from Israel' [Number 24:17--A Messianic
Prophecy given by Balaam {the ancient of the people; the destruction of the
people}] (For an analogy to the Hebrew/Christian Apostle Paul as designated
by Jesus Christ as the 'chosen-ekloge vessel-skeuos' within the early church
[Acts 9:1-22; 23:11-15]} )"[4Q266-272 The Damascus Document, Geniza B]

However crucifixion as a mode of death was already known to the Yahad Dead
Sea Scroll Community at the time of Alexander Jannaues (103-76 BCE) (ie. a
Flattery-Seeker) who is believed to have crucifiied eight hundred men ('as
it was doen in Israel in former times') for the crime of siding with the
Greek king Demetrius III (95-78 BCE) of Syria when inviting him to invade
Judea in 88 BCE: "But it never fell into the power of the kings of Greece
from Antiochus until the appearance of the rulers of the Kittim (ie.
Romans); but afterwards it will be trampled by the Gentiles..." [4Q169 - A
Commentary on Nahum (a prophecy from 612 BCE)]

If one is to follow the notion of the Book of Time Divisions by Jubilees and
Weeks, which appears a central theological tenet for both the Sectarian
Association and to King David:

"The LORD-YAHWEH gave [King David circa 1040-970 BCE] a brilliant and
discerning spirit, so that he wrote: psalms, three thousand six hundred;
songs to sing before the altar accompanying the daily perpetual burnt
offering, for all the days of the year, three hundred and sixty-four; {

The Hebrew Calendar Synchronizes as follows:
354 [typical lunar year] x 3 + 30 [Intercalation] =
3 x 364 days each year [52 weeks each] =
2 x #369 vMeme/Moment calendar matrix [ie. 9(92+1)/2] + 354 [typical lunar
year] = 1092 days

Last total solar eclipse for Millennium on 11 August 1999 + 30 days
Commencement of 1092-day cycle: 354 day [typical lunar year] x 3 + 30 days
[Intercalation]

1 Tishri 5760 = 11-12 September 1999 + 385 day lunar year =
1 Tishri 5761 = 30 September-1 October 2000 + 353 day lunar year =

Topical year/day solar eclipse on 25 December 2000 + 6 days
2 x 9(92+1)/2 (ie. #369 vMeme/Moment matrix) as 738 days =

1 Tishri 5762 = 18-19 September, 2001 + 354 day lunar year =
1 Tishri 5763 = 7-8 September 2002 = 1092 days
Australia's 1st Geodesic total solar eclipse 4 December 2002
Australia's 2nd Geodesic total solar eclipse 25 November 2030

} for the Sabbath offerings, fifty-two songs; and for the New Moon
offerings, all the festival days, and the Day of Atonement, thirty songs.
[Dead Sea Scrolls, Apocryphal Psalms of David, 11Q5 Col. 27:2-8]

"Therefore let a man take upon himself the oath to return to the Law of
Moses [ie. the Oracles of God [Romans 3:2]], for in it everything is laid in
detail. But the specification of the times during which all Israel is blind
to all these rules is laid out in detail in the 'Book of Time Divisions by
Jubilees and Weeks.' On the day a man promises to return to the Law of Moses
the Angel of Obstruction will leave him, if he keeps His words. That is why
Abraham was circumcised on the day he gained true knowledge." )"[4Q266-272
The Damascus Document, 16]

It is not difficult to conclude that the cryptic 70 weeks Messianic prophecy
given by the prophet Daniel [Daniel 9:24-27] is dependent upon 7th day
Sabbath (Saturday) based chronology as Time Divisions of Weeks and Jubilees,
that without a consideration for such as intrinsic to the Oracles of God
[Romans 3:2] as a chronological Torah conception--THE 3 TRAPS OF BELIAL AS
'FEAR AND PIT AND SNARE ARE UPON THEE, DWELLER IN THE LAND.' [Isaiah 24:17].

FEAR
Transforming Nature [Thou Shalt not Steal]
- Act of Nature (#5 - Pythagorean Tetragrammation of 'YHWH' as {72J} +
3(3²+1)/2 as 15 Units {2W1D} = {72J2W1D} - 457 BCE) + 2,300 years = 1844 CE
(Baha'Allah) + 36 years [1880 CE] + 120 years = 120J + 120 years or 12 x 10J
+ 120 {2J3W1D} and {120/36 = 3 1/3} years.

#3 = 457BCE (Beginning of 70 weeks cryptic Messianic prophecy as 72J +
3(3²+1)/2 = 457BCE),
#10 = 33CE (End of 70 weeks cryptic Messianic prophecy as 72J + 10(10²+1)/2
= 33CE)

PIT
Autonomous Nature [Thou shalt not bear false witness]
- Form of Nature (#6 - 70 weeks cryptic Messianic prophecy in midst of
69th week - 30CE being that 10J = 490 years = 33 CE)

What is not perhaps appreciated, is that Western Society's equilibrium as
democratic autonomy, has by virtue of its Hebrew/Christian religious origins
and tradition, had impressed upon it a certain annual metathetic sequence,
which is sustained by a 369 day chronological/mathematical matrix as the
Merkabah (ie. Kabbalistic) mystical (transcendent/metaphysical) foundation
for a perennial solar/lunar {ie. 9(9²+1)/2 (#369 vMeme/Moment matrix) -
3(3²+1)/2 (#15) = 354 lunar cycle} philosophy uniting reason and faith and
the mechanism for {#51, #66, #77, #37 - Non-Deeming Action/ Administration
of Government}.

SNARE
Totality of Nature [Thou shalt not covet]
- Engendering Nature (#7 - Telos Topical year/day solar eclipse Monday
25 December, 2000 + 6 days = 122J3W1D : 6,000 / 666 = 9.009 ... (6
remaining)) ... 9(9² +1)/2 = 369 {52W5D or 9 x 41} days with center #41 Mem
= Thursday, 13-17 September, 2001 [#41, #41, #41, #41 - Playing with
Reversal/ #41, #41. Occurring with a further apogee + 2300 days = 31
December, 2007]

Also the notion of the "smiting my shepherd and the man loyal to Me--so says
God." is even conveyed within the Dead Sea Scrolls as being connect with the
Messiah of Aaron and Israel: "If you strike down the shepherd, the flock
will scatter. The I will turn my power against the little ones. [Zechariah
13:7] But those who give heed to God are the poor of the flock [Zechariah
11:7] they will escape in the time of punishment (ie. 69CE as the
destruction of the Jewish Temple and the Jewish dispersal [Joel 3:6]), but
all the rest will be handed over to the sword when the Messiah of Aaron and
of Israel comes, just as it happened during the time of the first
punichment, as Ezekiel said, 'Make a mark on the foreheads of those who moan
and lament.' [Ezekiel 9:4], but the rest were given to the sword that makes
retaliation for convenant violations."[4Q266-272 The Damascus Document,
Geniza B:19]

- dolf

"1MAN4ALL" wrote in message@posting.google.com...
> Ideally if Islam was truly a monotheistic religion with astrological
> dependencies as paganism, it ought not to have had any contention with the
> Zoroastrian belief as claimed monotheistic astrological paganism.

Do you know what you are trying to write? Either you don't know
English or you are on drugs. So which is it?

First of all, I think you need to know the difference between
"Kabala," which is essentially Jewish mysticism, and Jewish Oral
Traditions, which, according to some Jews have precedence over written
traditions. If you do a little study, rather than insult the
intelligence of other people in this newsgroup, you will find out very
quickly that belief in archangel Gabriel is an intrinsic part of
Judaism as well Christianity, mentioned not only in the Book of Daniel
but also numerous times in Talmud.

Toth was an Egyptian god of wisdom, and I simply don't see how he
compares with Gabriel. Tammuz was the Assyrian/Babylonian god who dies
and rises again. People have compared him to Jesus, but I am not sure
why anybody would compare him to Gabriel. Serapis was a god of
fertility and of the dead, and, again, I don't see any connection.
Your last statement is so incoherent that I am wondering if you are on
drugs.

"Kedar" also means "mighty," and through him, Prophet Muhammad is
descended. But not all Arabs are children of Ishmael just as not all
Jews are descendants of Isaac.

It is also nonsense to assume that all Jews are descendants of Isaac.
However, I agree with you that those who use the analogy that Sara +
Isaac= Jews and Hagar + Ishmael= Muslims are making a terrible mistake
because many Jews have converted to Islam and not all Jews are
descendants of Isaac. Judaism and Islam are religions, not family
trees.

[snipped for context]

1MAN4ALL · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 4

"Qolon" wrote in message news:...
> Firstly a comment on what constitutes a monotheistic religion. Ahura Mazda
> whilst a eminent principle, doesn't constitute monotheism and an equivalence
> to Lord-YAHWEH God-'ELOHIYM of Israel {He that sees God; He that prevails
> with God} who is attributed by an autonomous and pre-eminent attribution of
> nature, known as the Sabbath (Saturday) which is a deified or transcendent
> principle or virtue as rationally a conception of, and co-participation
> within an Everalsting Convenant with God-This deification of time differs
> from that of the sixth day. In that one deals with the physicality of man
> and the spirituality of man.

> Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan expresses this view in his extrapolation of the
> Kabbalistic notion of Angels and to which my 9(9²+1)/2 = #396 vMeme/Moment
> mathematical, chronological, psychological, autonomous, isonomic and
> taxonomical model
> applies
> as a paradigm for hosting belief systems.

LOL. This makes as much sense as justifications for accepting the
"reality" of Israeli settlements.

Qolon · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 21

"1MAN4ALL" wrote in message@posting.google.com...
LOL. This makes as much sense as justifications for accepting the
"reality" of Israeli settlements.

QOLON NOTE:
For the public record then, I note that you wont engage in appropriate
dialog on these religious subjects as accountability for the religious SPAM
you continue to disseminate, which allows your absolute and yet insubsantial
claim to religious belief to be appropriately examined. I note there have
been several solar and lunar eclipses of late, which are chronologically a
principle of absolute negation against your alternate lunar based religious
practices.

I have yet to meet a Muslim who will give an answer that isn't mythical.

This is in contrast to the speed with which you will reach for your swords
and take the life of the other. {ie. in which you engaged in denegation as
denial and contradiction and denigration meaning to sully, defame; to
blacken}

By all objective measures, the question of the intrinsic connection between
the Christian Gospel as being undeniably Jewish in its origins and its
association with the tabernacle of David, remains unanswered by you--You
have simply stolen the religious writings of other peoples and adopted them
as your own. {

eg. the resurrection of the dead (ie. errant belief as the practice derived
from astological magic/mysticism: "Many of those who had practiced magic
brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all." [Acts
19:19]

"But Elymas [a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was
Bar-Jesus] the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them,
seeking to turn the proconsul [Sergius {net} Paulus] away from the faith.
Then Saul {demanded; lent; ditch; death}, who also is called Paul {small;
little} filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him and said, 'O
full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all
righteousness, will you not cease from perverting the straight ways of the
Lord?" [Acts 13:8-10]

} You ought therefore to not post any further to alt.religion.christians
until you can account for the consistency of this tennet of religious belief
of circa [1040-970 BCE] which is found in the Old Testament Prophets, The
New Testament and the Dead Sea Scrolls.

"After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David
{well beloved; dear}, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins
thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the
Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who
doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning
of the world." [Acts 15:16-18]

In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and
close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will
build it as in the days of old: That they may possess the remnant of Edom
{red, earthy; of blood}, and of all the heathen, which are called by my
name, saith the LORD that doeth this." [Amos 9:11-12]

"I will exile the tents of your king and the foundation of your images
beyond the tents of Damascus {a sack full of blood; the similitude of
burning} [Amos 5:27] The books of the Law are the tents
of the king, as it says, "I will re-erect the fallen tent of David' [Amos
9:11] The king is the the nation and the 'foundation of your
images' is the books of the prophets whose words Israel despise. The star is
the Interpreter of the Law who comes to Damascus, as it is written, 'A star
has left Jacob, a staff has risen from Israel' [Number 24:17--A Messianic
Prophecy given by Balaam {the ancient of the people; the destruction of the
people}] (For an analogy to the Hebrew/Christian Apostle Paul as designated
by Jesus Christ as the 'chosen-ekloge vessel-skeuos' within the early church
[Acts 9:1-22; 23:11-15]} )"[4Q266-272 The Damascus Document, Geniza B]

"The LORD-YAHWEH gave [King David circa 1040-970 BCE] a brilliant and
discerning spirit, so that he wrote: psalms, three thousand six hundred;
songs to sing before the altar accompanying the daily perpetual burnt
offering, for all the days of the year, three hundred and sixty-four; {

The Hebrew Calendar Synchronizes as follows:
354 [typical lunar year] x 3 + 30 [Intercalation] =
3 x 364 days each year [52 weeks each] =
2 x #369 vMeme/Moment calendar matrix [ie. 9(9²+1)/2] + 354 [typical lunar
year] = 1092 days

Last total solar eclipse for Millennium on 11 August 1999 + 30 days
Commencement of 1092-day cycle: 354 day [typical lunar year] x 3 + 30 days
[Intercalation]

1 Tishri 5760 = 11-12 September 1999 + 385 day lunar year =
1 Tishri 5761 = 30 September-1 October 2000 + 353 day lunar year =

Topical year/day solar eclipse on 25 December 2000 + 6 days
2 x 9(9²+1)/2 (ie. #369 vMeme/Moment matrix) as 738 days =

1 Tishri 5762 = 18-19 September, 2001 + 354 day lunar year =
1 Tishri 5763 = 7-8 September 2002 = 1092 days
Australia's 1st Geodesic total solar eclipse 4 December 2002
Australia's 2nd Geodesic total solar eclipse 25 November 2030

} for the Sabbath offerings, fifty-two songs; and for the New Moon
offerings, all the festival days, and the Day of Atonement, thirty songs.
[Dead Sea Scrolls, Apocryphal Psalms of David, 11Q5 Col. 27:2-8]

"This again brings us to the location of the Foundation Stone, the focus of
all spiritual forces. It was set on the crossroads of civilization, so that
all peoples should interact with these forces, and throughout history be
influenced by them. In this manner, all mankind is gradually elevated by
these forces, paving the way for the ultimate rectification of the world.
This will be realized in the Messianic Age, when Jerusalem becomes a center
for God's teaching for all mankind, [as Isaiah the prophet said]: 'Out of
Zion shall come forth the Torah, and God's word from Jerusalem.'" [Courtesy:
Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan " Jerusalem: Eye of the
Universe", published by the Orthodox Union and obtained
from Project Genesis ].

- dolf
-

Kenadian · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 7

what do say to an individual who will not accept his own bible? also
deny the revelation of his own god, and thus make himself greater than
god?

Genesis 12:2 (KJV) And I will make of thee [abraham] a great nation,
and I will bless thee, and make thy name great;
and thou shalt be a blessing:

Genesis 17:20 (KJV) And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I
have blessed him, and will MAKE HIM FRUITFUL, and will multiply him
exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make HIM A
GREAT NATION.

Genesis 21:13 (KJV) And also of the son of the bondwoman [ishmael],
will I make a nation, because he [is] thy seed.

Matthew 21:43 (KJV) Therefore say I [jesus] unto you, The kingdom of
God shall be taken from you, and given to a NATION BRINGING FORTH THE
FRUITS THEREOF.

Galatians 4:22 (WEB) For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one
by the handmaid, and one by the free woman. 23 However, the son by the
handmaid was born according to the flesh, but the son by the free
woman was born through promise. 24 These things contain an allegory,
for these are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children
to bondage, which is Hagar.25 For this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia,
and answers to the Jerusalem that exists now, for she is in bondage
with her children.

Qolon · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 21

But the Everlasting Covenant was made with Isaac {He laughs} and then Jacob
{that supplants, undermines; the heel}, and not with Ishmael {God that
hears}or Esau {he that acts or finishes}: "Now we, brethren, as Isaac was,
are children of promise. But, as he who was born according to the flesh {ie.
Ishmael from Hagar} then persecuted him who was born according to the
Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "Cast
out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be
heir with the son of the freewoman." So then, brethren, we are not children
of the bondwoman but of the free." [Galatians 4:28-31]

As you say, "what do say to an individual who will not accept" the
Jewish/Christian Scriptures within in Hebrew and Greek?

- dolf

"Kenadian" wrote in message@posting.google.com...
what do say to an individual who will not accept his own bible? also
deny the revelation of his own god, and thus make himself greater than
god?

Genesis 12:2 (KJV) And I will make of thee [abraham] a great nation,
and I will bless thee, and make thy name great;
and thou shalt be a blessing:

Genesis 17:20 (KJV) And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I
have blessed him, and will MAKE HIM FRUITFUL, and will multiply him
exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make HIM A
GREAT NATION.

Genesis 21:13 (KJV) And also of the son of the bondwoman [ishmael],
will I make a nation, because he [is] thy seed.

Matthew 21:43 (KJV) Therefore say I [jesus] unto you, The kingdom of
God shall be taken from you, and given to a NATION BRINGING FORTH THE
FRUITS THEREOF.

Galatians 4:22 (WEB) For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one
by the handmaid, and one by the free woman. 23 However, the son by the
handmaid was born according to the flesh, but the son by the free
woman was born through promise. 24 These things contain an allegory,
for these are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children
to bondage, which is Hagar.25 For this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia,
and answers to the Jerusalem that exists now, for she is in bondage
with her children.

1MAN4ALL · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 4

"Qolon" wrote in message news:<5VWlc.20732$TT.14649@news-

> I have yet to meet a Muslim who will give an answer that isn't mythical.

And I have yet to see a post from you that is not nonsensical.

Kenadian · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 7

"Qolon" wrote in message news:...
> I thought we adequately responded to your insinuations sometime ago.
>
> - dolf

>
> Furthermore in my past discussions with Islamic adherents, there is a
> tendency for Arabs who are Muslim to make much of a genealogical dependency
> on Hagar and Ishmael--Unless you are advocating an elitist heirarchial
> culture of Imams by birth, who are sustained by myriads of subserviant
> minions, it is a fallacy that the 12 sons of Ishmael as refugees:
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

the 12 sons of Ishmael as refugees
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^???????

> #1 - Nabajoth {words; prophecies; buds} / Aleph,
> #2 - Kedar {blackness; sorrow} / Beth,
> #3 - Adbeel {vapor, or cloud of God} / Gimel,
> #4 - Mibsam {smelling sweet} / Daleth,
> #5 - Mishma {hearing; obeying} / He,
> #6 - Dumah {? Silent; resemulance} / Vav,
> #7 - Massa {a burden; prophecy} / Zayin,
> #8 - Hadad {joy; noise; clamor}/ Heth,
> #9 - Tema {admiration; perfection; consummation} / Teth,
> #10 - Jetur {order; succession; mountainous} / Yod,
> #11 - Naphish {the soul; he that rests, refreshes himself, or respires} /
> Kaf,
> #12 - Kedemah {oriental; ancient; first} / Lamed
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

who made them REFUGEES? a nice way to belie your own bible and thus, god:

Genesis 17:20 (KJV) And as for Ishmael,
I have heard thee:
Behold, I have blessed him,
and will make him fruitful,
and will multiply him exceedingly;
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
twelve princes shall he beget,
and I will make him a great nation.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Genesis 21:13 (KJV) And also of the son of the
bondwoman will I make a nation,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
because he [is] thy seed.

Genesis 21:18 (KJV) Arise, lift up the lad,
and hold him in thine hand;
for I will make him a great nation
^^^^&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&^^^^^^^^

Genesis 25:12 (WEB) Now this is the history of
the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's son,
whom Hagar the Egyptian,
Sarah's handmaid, bore to Abraham.

13 These are the names of the sons of Ishmael,
by their names, according to the order of their birth:
the firstborn of Ishmael, Nebaioth, then Kedar,
Adbeel, Mibsam,
14 Mishma, Dumah, Massa,
15 Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah.

16 These are the sons of Ishmael,
and these are their names,
by their villages,
and by their encampments:
twelve princes,
according to their nations.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

17 These are the years of the life of Ishmael:
one hundred thirty-seven years.
He gave up the spirit and died,
and was gathered to his people.

18 They lived from Havilah to Shur
that is before Egypt,
as you go toward Assyria.
He lived opposite all his relatives.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Qolon · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 21

I'm sure there are lots of Muslims out there who suspect, that besides
militancy, myth, spontaneous combustion and institutionalised oppression,
that not all is halal in Islam these days:

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine-didaskalia;
but after their own lusts-epithumia {ie. to covet; forbidden desires &
longing of the heart} shall they heap to themselves teachers-didaskalos,
having itching-knetho ears-akoe; And they shall turn-apostrepho
away-apostrepho {ie. pervert, turn back} their ears from the truth-aletheia,
and shall be turned unto fables-muthos {(through the idea of tuition); a
tale, that is, fiction ('myth'):-fable}.

But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an
evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry." [2 Timothy 4:3-5]

That you have no answers!

- dolf

"1MAN4ALL" wrote in message@posting.google.com...
"Qolon" wrote in message
news:<5VWlc.20732$TT.14649@news-

> I have yet to meet a Muslim who will give an answer that isn't mythical.

And I have yet to see a post from you that is not nonsensical.

Qolon · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 21

"Kenadian" wrote in message@posting.google.com...
who made them REFUGEES? a nice way to belie your own bible and thus, god:

[snipped for context]

QOLON NOTE:
If Ishmael {God that hears} was banished along with Hagar {a stranger; one
that fears}, then he is by definition a refugee {ie one who flees for refuge
as anything to which one has recourse for aid, relief or escape}--that 12
princes arise from his loins simply implies that they proliferated into a
nation of their own regards. But that doesn't negate the fact that the
everlasting covenant as negation of hymeneal mysticism {eg: Baal-Poer as the
god of procreation etc [Numebrs 25:1-5]}, was after Abraham {father of a
great multitude} then made with Isaac {He laughs} and not Ishmael {God that
hears}.

And do remember it is our own Bible and evidently not yours ('For we have
not following cunningly devised-SOPHISTIC {ie. derived from a symbolic
taxonomical assignments as system of rhetorics} fables-MUTHOS {Myths}' [2
Peter 1:16]), because we participate peacefully with Israel within the
Everlasting Covenant experience: "For I do not desire brethren, that you
should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own
opinion, THAT HARDENING IN PART HAS HAPPENED TO ISRAEL {He that sees God; He
that prevails with God} until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And
so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

"According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his
adversaries, recompense to his enemies; The coastlands he will fully repay.
So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from
the rising of the sun; When the enemy comes in like a flood, the Spirit of
the LORD will lift up a standard against him. The Redeemer will come to
Zion, and to those who turn from transgression in Jacob {that supplants,
undermines; the heel}.' Says the LORD.

As for me,' says the LORD-YAHWEH, 'this is my covenant with them: My Spirit
who is upon you, and my words which I have put in your mouth, shall not
depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendents, nor from the
mouth of your descendents' descendents,' says the LORD, 'from this time and
for evermore.' [Isaiah 59:21]" [Romans 11:25-27]

And this concurs with Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan suggestion of a Covenant dependency
as corelationship with Israel: "This again brings us to the location of the
Foundation Stone, the focus of all spiritual forces. It was set on the
crossroads of civilization, so that all peoples should interact with these
forces, and throughout history be influenced by them. In this manner, all
mankind is gradually elevated by these forces, paving the way for the
ultimate rectification of the world. This will be realized in the Messianic
Age, when Jerusalem becomes a center for God's teaching for all mankind, [as
Isaiah the prophet said]: 'Out of Zion shall come forth the Torah, and God's
word from Jerusalem.'" [Courtesy: Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan " Jerusalem: Eye of the
Universe", published by the Orthodox Union and obtained
from Project Genesis ].

I indicated in a previous post, that the Lord-YAHWEH God-'ELOHIYM of Israel
{He that sees God; He that prevails with God} as Creator, Redeemer and
Sustainer is attributed by an autonomous and pre-eminent attribution of
nature, known as the Sabbath (Saturday) which is a deified or transcendent
principle or virtue as rationally a conception of, and co-participation
within an Everalsting Convenant with God-This deification of time differs
from that of the sixth day. In that the 6th {shishshOy} day of creation
deals with the physicality of man {as 'iysh and woman as 'ishshah} and the
other as the 7th day deals with the spirituality of man.

This notion of physicality and spirituality had not escaped Balaam's {the
ancient of the people; the destruction of the people} attention, who was
obviously not only a perverse individual [Numbers 22:32], but who taught
Balak {who lays waste or destroys}of Moab {of his father} "what this people
will do to your people in the latter days." [Numbers 24:14] Because of
this action {

ie. they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came
forth out of Egypt {that troubles or oppresses; anguish}; and because they
hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor {burning; foolish; mad} of Pethor
{to interpret dreams}of Mesopotamia {between two rivers}, to curse thee

}, an Ammonite {a people; the son of my people} or Moabite are forever
forebidden and therefore unwilling by God's immutable word (as you say, 'you
are willfully qestioning and rejecting the lord god's omnipotence,
omnipresence and omniscience'), to participate within the congregation of
the LORD." [Deuteronomy 23:3-4]

Balaam is depicted within Scripture, as normally making oracular
proclamations through seeking-qir'ah to use sorcery-nachash {

ie. to practice divination, divine, observe signs, learn by experience,
diligently observe, practice fortunetelling, take as an omen; to practice
divination to observe the signs or omens; Literally: to consult (lms'lyh) by
his phallus (d'kireh)/membrum virile (dkwr')] [Targum Neofiti 1:Numbers
24:1]

} This stands in contrast to a proclamation or announcement of the
significance of the name Yahweh: "For there is no sorcery against Jacob
{that supplants, undermines; the heel}, nor is there any divination against
Israel." [Numbers 23:24]

Thus qr'sem yhwh 'to proclaim the name of Yahweh' [Deuteronomy 32:3];
qr'bsem yhwh 'to make the name of Yahweh known' [Isaiah 24:4; Psalms 105:1 =
1Chronicles 16:8] And this appears consistent with its conception within
the term dbr [Deuteronomy 6:7; 1Samuel 19:3] and Sought Out-Darash {to
consult, enquire of, seek: a) of God b) of heathen Gods, necromancers}.

But what caused him to lament in is prophetic parabolic discourse: "Were
Israel to kill him by the sword, Balaam himself proclaims that he has no
portion in the world to come; but if Balaam were to die and upright death,
would that his latter end, were as (that of) the least among them." [Numbers
23:10]

and

"Blessed are you, just ones! What a good reward is prepared for you before
the Lord for the world to come! Behold, the people (of Israel); ... they do
not rest nor are they at ease until they slay enemies and have
poured out the blood of their slain like water." [© 1995 The Order of Saint
Benedict, portions Aramaic Targum Numbers 23:23-24]

Rabbi David Rosenfeld, in this week's Pirkei Avos, titled 'Body and Soul -
Part 1' suggests that the issue of physical (ie. Greek lusts-epithumia to
covet; forbidden desires & longing of the heart, whether murderous, sexual
or violent possessional) lust and spirituality is a question which has
plagued theologians throughout the ages. How do we reconcile our undeniable
physical lusts with our equally indismissible spiritual yearnings? Are they
contradictory and mutually exclusive?

"I believe it is a valid observation that Gentiles appear to have even
greater difficulty with this issue than Jews. When Bilam (Balaam), the
wicked prophet of the nations (see Numbers 22-24), saw prophetically G-d
waiting to see which drop of semen would produce a righteous person, he
simply could not handle it: "Would a G-d who is pure and holy and whose
servants are pure and holy look at such things?!" (Talmud Niddah 31a). This
coming from a person who according to the Talmud regularly engaged in
bestiality (Sanhedrin 105b). (For Bilam's "righteous indignation" G-d
blinded him in one eye, continues the Talmud.) What Bilam could not relate
to is how religion and holiness could have any relationship to physical,
lustful activity. (Why such lustful activities result in man's highest act
of creation too was surely beyond him.) In his world, spirituality and even
prophecy are matters of the mind and the soul. Bilam's body was his to
disgrace in any way he felt like.

A further observation regarding this is that two of the great religions of
the Gentiles appear to have dramatically divergent approaches to this
issue. Now I'll state my standard disclaimer at this point. I have no
pretences of expertise in comparative religions. What follows I'm sure is a
vast oversimplification. Yet I believe it sheds some light on man's
difficulty in grappling with the issue of physical versus spiritual and the
vastly divergent approaches different races and cultures have taken.

Christianity seems to view man's physical side as basically evil. Priests
take vows of poverty. The truly holy are celibate. If you truly want G-d,
you will live in a monastery, removed from mundane living and reality. Man
was conceived in sin. Only by distancing himself the utmost from his
original conception does he have any hope of attaining salvation. (We know
only all too well today with all the child abuse cases now surfacing how
badly such an approach often backfires.)

Islam, on the other hand, appears to take precisely the opposite approach.
The physical to them almost assumes sacred dimensions. Their image of the
world to come is a heavenly harem, 70 beautiful virgins for every man. (I
don't know what they offer women.) The ideal state of man is cheapened to
the fleeting pleasures of the flesh. A very sad and tragic distortion of
man's inborn need for spirituality. Turn it into a vehicle and an excuse
for physical indulgence. (It was probably a wonderful marketing tool when
Islam was invented -- far more attractive than flying from cloud to cloud
playing the harp.) And taken to the illogical extreme of Moslem
fundamentalism, why not blow yourself up for your "holy" cause? After a
little pain, you'll go straight to G-d's court in Heaven -- no doubt to a
far better life than you lead today. (Boy are *they* in for a surprise! ;- )
I sometimes just wish that the victims of terrorism be allowed to be present
when the perpetrators of such madness are put on trial in Heaven -- when
they are brought to the awful realization of the utter fallacy of their
lives -- and when they are led to their eternal damnation.)

But in a small way Islam *is* onto something. They have some sense that
there is holiness to the physical world and even to physical pleasure."
[Copyright © 2004 by Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld and ]

- dolf
-

Qolon · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 21

And is it not so written, "O seed of Abraham his servant, you children of
Jacob, his chosen ones!

The [LORD our God] has remembered his covenant for ever, the word-DaBaR
which he commanded for a thousand generations, the covenant which he made
with Abraham, and his oath with Isaac, and confirmed it to Jacob for a
statute, to Israel for an everlasting covenant, saying, 'To you I will give
the land of Caanan as the allotment of your inheritance,' when they were but
few in number, indeed very few and strangers in it.

When they went from one nation to another, from one kingdom to another
people, he permitted no one to do them wrong; Yes, he reproved kings for
their sakes, saying, 'Do not touch my anointed ones, and do my prophets no
harm.'" [Psalm 105:6-15]

- dolf

"Qolon" wrote in message$TT.17935@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"Kenadian" wrote in message@posting.google.com...
who made them REFUGEES? a nice way to belie your own bible and thus, god:

[snipped for context]

QOLON NOTE:
If Ishmael {God that hears} was banished along with Hagar {a stranger; one
that fears}, then he is by definition a refugee {ie one who flees for refuge
as anything to which one has recourse for aid, relief or escape}--that 12
princes arise from his loins simply implies that they proliferated into a
nation of their own regards. But that doesn't negate the fact that the
everlasting covenant as negation of hymeneal mysticism {eg: Baal-Poer as the
god of procreation etc [Numebrs 25:1-5]}, was after Abraham {father of a
great multitude} then made with Isaac {He laughs} and not Ishmael {God that
hears}.

And do remember it is our own Bible and evidently not yours ('For we have
not following cunningly devised-SOPHISTIC {ie. derived from a symbolic
taxonomical assignments as system of rhetorics} fables-MUTHOS {Myths}' [2
Peter 1:16]), because we participate peacefully with Israel within the
Everlasting Covenant experience: "For I do not desire brethren, that you
should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own
opinion, THAT HARDENING IN PART HAS HAPPENED TO ISRAEL {He that sees God; He
that prevails with God} until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And
so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

"According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his
adversaries, recompense to his enemies; The coastlands he will fully repay.
So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from
the rising of the sun; When the enemy comes in like a flood, the Spirit of
the LORD will lift up a standard against him. The Redeemer will come to
Zion, and to those who turn from transgression in Jacob {that supplants,
undermines; the heel}.' Says the LORD.

As for me,' says the LORD-YAHWEH, 'this is my covenant with them: My Spirit
who is upon you, and my words which I have put in your mouth, shall not
depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendents, nor from the
mouth of your descendents' descendents,' says the LORD, 'from this time and
for evermore.' [Isaiah 59:21]" [Romans 11:25-27]

And this concurs with Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan suggestion of a Covenant dependency
as corelationship with Israel: "This again brings us to the location of the
Foundation Stone, the focus of all spiritual forces. It was set on the
crossroads of civilization, so that all peoples should interact with these
forces, and throughout history be influenced by them. In this manner, all
mankind is gradually elevated by these forces, paving the way for the
ultimate rectification of the world. This will be realized in the Messianic
Age, when Jerusalem becomes a center for God's teaching for all mankind, [as
Isaiah the prophet said]: 'Out of Zion shall come forth the Torah, and God's
word from Jerusalem.'" [Courtesy: Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan " Jerusalem: Eye of the
Universe", published by the Orthodox Union and obtained
from Project Genesis ].

I indicated in a previous post, that the Lord-YAHWEH God-'ELOHIYM of Israel
{He that sees God; He that prevails with God} as Creator, Redeemer and
Sustainer is attributed by an autonomous and pre-eminent attribution of
nature, known as the Sabbath (Saturday) which is a deified or transcendent
principle or virtue as rationally a conception of, and co-participation
within an Everalsting Convenant with God-This deification of time differs
from that of the sixth day. In that the 6th {shishshOy} day of creation
deals with the physicality of man {as 'iysh and woman as 'ishshah} and the
other as the 7th day deals with the spirituality of man.

This notion of physicality and spirituality had not escaped Balaam's {the
ancient of the people; the destruction of the people} attention, who was
obviously not only a perverse individual [Numbers 22:32], but who taught
Balak {who lays waste or destroys}of Moab {of his father} "what this people
will do to your people in the latter days." [Numbers 24:14] Because of
this action {

ie. they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came
forth out of Egypt {that troubles or oppresses; anguish}; and because they
hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor {burning; foolish; mad} of Pethor
{to interpret dreams}of Mesopotamia {between two rivers}, to curse thee

}, an Ammonite {a people; the son of my people} or Moabite are forever
forebidden and therefore unwilling by God's immutable word (as you say, 'you
are willfully qestioning and rejecting the lord god's omnipotence,
omnipresence and omniscience'), to participate within the congregation of
the LORD." [Deuteronomy 23:3-4]

Balaam is depicted within Scripture, as normally making oracular
proclamations through seeking-qir'ah to use sorcery-nachash {

ie. to practice divination, divine, observe signs, learn by experience,
diligently observe, practice fortunetelling, take as an omen; to practice
divination to observe the signs or omens; Literally: to consult (lms'lyh) by
his phallus (d'kireh)/membrum virile (dkwr')] [Targum Neofiti 1:Numbers
24:1]

} This stands in contrast to a proclamation or announcement of the
significance of the name Yahweh: "For there is no sorcery against Jacob
{that supplants, undermines; the heel}, nor is there any divination against
Israel." [Numbers 23:24]

Thus qr'sem yhwh 'to proclaim the name of Yahweh' [Deuteronomy 32:3];
qr'bsem yhwh 'to make the name of Yahweh known' [Isaiah 24:4; Psalms 105:1 =
1Chronicles 16:8] And this appears consistent with its conception within
the term dbr [Deuteronomy 6:7; 1Samuel 19:3] and Sought Out-Darash {to
consult, enquire of, seek: a) of God b) of heathen Gods, necromancers}.

But what caused him to lament in is prophetic parabolic discourse: "Were
Israel to kill him by the sword, Balaam himself proclaims that he has no
portion in the world to come; but if Balaam were to die and upright death,
would that his latter end, were as (that of) the least among them." [Numbers
23:10]

and

"Blessed are you, just ones! What a good reward is prepared for you before
the Lord for the world to come! Behold, the people (of Israel); ... they do
not rest nor are they at ease until they slay enemies and have
poured out the blood of their slain like water." [© 1995 The Order of Saint
Benedict, portions Aramaic Targum Numbers 23:23-24]

Rabbi David Rosenfeld, in this week's Pirkei Avos, titled 'Body and Soul -
Part 1' suggests that the issue of physical (ie. Greek lusts-epithumia to
covet; forbidden desires & longing of the heart, whether murderous, sexual
or violent possessional) lust and spirituality is a question which has
plagued theologians throughout the ages. How do we reconcile our undeniable
physical lusts with our equally indismissible spiritual yearnings? Are they
contradictory and mutually exclusive?

"I believe it is a valid observation that Gentiles appear to have even
greater difficulty with this issue than Jews. When Bilam (Balaam), the
wicked prophet of the nations (see Numbers 22-24), saw prophetically G-d
waiting to see which drop of semen would produce a righteous person, he
simply could not handle it: "Would a G-d who is pure and holy and whose
servants are pure and holy look at such things?!" (Talmud Niddah 31a). This
coming from a person who according to the Talmud regularly engaged in
bestiality (Sanhedrin 105b). (For Bilam's "righteous indignation" G-d
blinded him in one eye, continues the Talmud.) What Bilam could not relate
to is how religion and holiness could have any relationship to physical,
lustful activity. (Why such lustful activities result in man's highest act
of creation too was surely beyond him.) In his world, spirituality and even
prophecy are matters of the mind and the soul. Bilam's body was his to
disgrace in any way he felt like.

A further observation regarding this is that two of the great religions of
the Gentiles appear to have dramatically divergent approaches to this
issue. Now I'll state my standard disclaimer at this point. I have no
pretences of expertise in comparative religions. What follows I'm sure is a
vast oversimplification. Yet I believe it sheds some light on man's
difficulty in grappling with the issue of physical versus spiritual and the
vastly divergent approaches different races and cultures have taken.

Christianity seems to view man's physical side as basically evil. Priests
take vows of poverty. The truly holy are celibate. If you truly want G-d,
you will live in a monastery, removed from mundane living and reality. Man
was conceived in sin. Only by distancing himself the utmost from his
original conception does he have any hope of attaining salvation. (We know
only all too well today with all the child abuse cases now surfacing how
badly such an approach often backfires.)

Islam, on the other hand, appears to take precisely the opposite approach.
The physical to them almost assumes sacred dimensions. Their image of the
world to come is a heavenly harem, 70 beautiful virgins for every man. (I
don't know what they offer women.) The ideal state of man is cheapened to
the fleeting pleasures of the flesh. A very sad and tragic distortion of
man's inborn need for spirituality. Turn it into a vehicle and an excuse
for physical indulgence. (It was probably a wonderful marketing tool when
Islam was invented -- far more attractive than flying from cloud to cloud
playing the harp.) And taken to the illogical extreme of Moslem
fundamentalism, why not blow yourself up for your "holy" cause? After a
little pain, you'll go straight to G-d's court in Heaven -- no doubt to a
far better life than you lead today. (Boy are *they* in for a surprise! ;- )
I sometimes just wish that the victims of terrorism be allowed to be present
when the perpetrators of such madness are put on trial in Heaven -- when
they are brought to the awful realization of the utter fallacy of their
lives -- and when they are led to their eternal damnation.)

But in a small way Islam *is* onto something. They have some sense that
there is holiness to the physical world and even to physical pleasure."
[Copyright © 2004 by Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld and ]

- dolf
-